Idaho’s Senator Craig is asking for our feedback on the farm bill at his survey. You do not need to be a constituent to leave him comments. I left him these remarks:
I object to the USDA’s proposed NAIS. It is an invasion of my privacy, property and Constitutional rights for the benefit of the largest producers, corporate buyers and exporters. Local small farmers like myself and homesteaders do not benefit and should not have to pay for NAIS. If there is going to be trace-back, let it be a truly 100% voluntary, market driven system with no government involvement.
You can also contact him via email or off-line to make sure he gets your message.
Hat tip to Tinybabe
The survey won’t hurt but I have not had any positive responses from Larry Craig from my many letters and emails to date. He pretty much comes back with why we need NAIS. Likewise Butch Otter who will probably be our next governor supports NAIS in every response. For the first time in my life I will be voting for a democrat for governor as Jerry Brady opposes NAIS and this election, I am a one issue voter. Bill Sali, in spite of numerous requests by numerous people refuses to say a word about NAIS one way or the other. That makes me think he supports it.
Elections in general, if EVERY incumbent, regardless of party was turned out of office in Novemeber, it would sure focus the attention of those coming up for election in 2008 that the people are not happy!
Comment Patricia Hampton — October 14, 2006 @ 8:52 am
Your remarks are right on track. It is an invasion of our privacy and our right to the pursuit of happiness.
Hopefully this thing will die a natural death, but I suppose that is asking too much.
Comment Nancy Chapman — October 14, 2006 @ 9:05 am
We need to change his mind and this survey is a good way to show him that the PEOPLE are opposed to it.
He is only hearing one side and guess who that is?
I live in ALASKA and I will be sending in my comments
Comment Gisela — October 14, 2006 @ 11:07 am
Forget about NAIS….keep our country FREE…….Geri
[Yes, this is not just about NAIS. We need to renew our vows with the Constitution and our basic rights and freedoms. Our legislators and bureaucrats seem to have lost their copy. -WJ]
Comment Geri — October 14, 2006 @ 11:33 am
I am totally against this program. There is no way the federal govenment can keep anything confidential. Also, I am a widow, living on a fixed income, with a few beef cattle, and I cannot afford to hire a vet, or anyone, to come and tag my animals, etc.
This is just another beurocracy.
Comment ruth nelson — October 14, 2006 @ 12:21 pm
Write to all of Congress, even those out of state. They might not pay quite so much attantion to yours, but huge numbers can be very convincing.
Comment Rawles — October 14, 2006 @ 12:43 pm
Walter,
I think somewhere along the trail the Constitution and Bill of Rights became “optional equiptment” and most folks just don’t want to pay the extra costs (ie) standing up and fighting for it! I hope folks wake up and demand the “options” that should be included as “basic eguiptment” you know, items like tires and the engine things you just can’t do without!
Comment LEE — October 14, 2006 @ 12:53 pm
Humbly submitted-Re-defined word, ‘market-driven’ according to the OIE Glossary has been translated into ‘international trade’. Please y’all keep this in mind when corresponding with our officials.
Comment Celeste — October 14, 2006 @ 12:57 pm
Government needs to butt out and leave farmers be….who do they think is providing the only safe food in the country these days?
Comment Diana Flanary-Bray — October 14, 2006 @ 1:22 pm
Did anyone see the article in Able Farm and ranch (groups.msn.com)I believe) about the meat recall? This article was from Erie Pa. about 60 miles from here, lots of folks from around here drive up there to shop as it is the biggest area around. Anyway the article says that the e- coli beef originated at Moyer Packing and was shipped to quite a few states in the region. They said that the USDA will not tell where the beef was sold as it is a “trade secret” can you imagine such a thing? how can a consumer “shop safely” (what a thought) and protect themselves if that type of info is off limits? How do these knotheads propose to use NAIS to protect the public if the public can’t be told? By their own admission the contamination took place at Moyer so we know that NAIS would have served no purpose in this type of case( although the potential for blaming it back to the farmer is certainly greater with NAIS in place)this is frankly an example of USDA and a packer(govicop) not doing their job and catching or avoiding this at the packing plant.(nationwide USDA averages one,yes one, inspector per plant)To me it underscores the inept way USDA oversees the nations food safety. Another point, this beef was processed back around July 11 06 and the recall is now, that means that the meat in question has been dead at least three months, was it frozen and then thawed again (ruins the flavor) or did it hang around in a refrigerated truck/locker somewhere for all that time? Seems to me that this whole system is ripe for problems, it’s a wonder there hasn’t been alot more(maybe there has and its a trade secret) of this going on.I havn’t bought meat in a store in a very long time and I do not intend to do so ever again so this is not a problem for me personally but I present it to y’all as an example of what and why we must defeat this stupidity,and work to move Americas food resources away from this massive inept system that is now in place back to local, self sustained and clean family operations like so many of us now operate! Thanks!
Comment LEE — October 14, 2006 @ 1:24 pm
What do you think of this letter to the Senator?
Bruce Knight, National Association of State Departments of Agriculture, said “Choosing NOT to participate may limit your options when it comes time to sell your herd or your flock or your breeding stock. Choosing NOT to participate may opt you out of the export market. Choosing NOT to participate may mean—at some point—you’ll have to hunt harder and go further to find buyers or slaughterhouses willing to accept undocumented livestock or poultry—especially as NAIS becomes fully operational”. This will include all livestock, not just exporting markets, but the Pet Owners, Hobbyists, FFA/4H families, and Independent Farmers and Ranchers. The families that own one or two horses, a few chickens, or a duck in a pond. That you will not be able to buy or sell due to the mark. Is this what our country has come to! Threats to the public citizen, Absolutely amazing to say the least. Senator Craig you were once a farmer, you and only you were accountable to your livestock via good husbandry practices. A tag will not make a difference. Do not let profits cloud your judgment for a few Multinational Corporations bottom line.
The Constitution was formed, among other purposes, to make the people’s liberties secure– secure not only as against foreign attack but against oppression by their own government. Nais will remove the First Amendment-The first amendment of the Bill of Rights
guarantees Americans the right to the free exercise of religion. Fourth Amendment: The fourth amendment guarantees the right to
privacy and security against unreasonable searches and seizures. Fifth Amendment: The fifth amendment guarantees protection against
the loss of life, liberty or private property without due process of law. Fourteenth Amendment: No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of US citizens nor deprive them of life, liberty or property without due process of
law.
We will nowt be faced with a national ID for every individual chicken cow horse bison etc. What else will the Government (UN) come up with to control the masses?
Anytime the government or any other powerful entity speaks of permitting or licensing a right, it should be our wake-up call that said entity does not consider it a right, but rather a privilege – to be approved, licensed and controlled by the government.
Not only will the National Animal Identification System affect us it will affect you and all members of congress as your constitutional rights are at risk also, Your choices along with mine and everybody else’s will be compromised due to profits. America’s strength is rooted in America’s independence and we must always be wary of attempts to compromise our sovereignty.
Senator Craig may I remind you that you are a United States Citizen first and then a Senator and your job is to work for the public not for the bottom line.
Comment Gisela — October 14, 2006 @ 1:24 pm
When I speak to my local feed supplier, his comments are all about another proposed system that will require him to keep track of every feed bag he sells, what lot number it is, who he sells it to, etc. He’s not psyched about NAIS, but the Grain tracking (I don’t have a program name for it) scares him silly. And he is very cognizant that all of this regulation will hurt his customers in the long run and force many of them out of livestock rearing, maybe making his own markt too small to be viable.
I bring this up because I haven’t heard much anywhere else about these grain tracking programs. I haven’t done any research on them yet, just my local dealers opinions, but it sounds like the other side of the coin from NAIS.
If the USDA knows who is buying grain, they know who has livestock. They are trying to use this as another tactic to get to animal owners. I would think I was paranoid, but the USDA has been out to get us for a while….
Does any one else know more about the regulations that will force reporting of grain sales and purchases?
Afella in VT
[Good point. This is something I have been looking into. If you look in the Technical Documents section of the right sidebar (over there –> ) you’ll find two links to the FDA [1, 2]. I have not fully digested this information - sometimes I think our government is trying to drown us in data. I have heard several reports of required sales reporting from readers. I asked our local general store if he was required to record who he sold grain to and he scoffed and said, “No!” he didn’t. I would like to believe that. The one catch with a local store is they know who you are and may already have you in their system or be able to enter you easily without your knowing it. -WJ]
Comment Afella in VT — October 14, 2006 @ 1:27 pm
We no longer live in a “free” country, no matter what you would like to think or what they try to tell you. It is all about world power and big business, nothing more. The ordinary sheeple people will pay the price and do without and any non sheeple who dares open their mouth in objection to the erosion of their personal rights and freedoms supposedly guaranteed in this country, will be branded a domestic terrorist and prosecuted. The fear of that eventuality will keep most in line. Creating fear is a powerful tool for manipulation of the masses. The framework is already in place and they have made no secret about it. I remember reading/hearing about this kind of tyranny as far back as grade school and in history books regarding other unfortunate countries. To see it clearly in motion here, is more than scary. Having said that, it doesn’t mean that we shouldn’t band together and do everything still legally within our power to stop and reverse the trend. Clearing out a good portion of the incumbent lawmakers would be a good start and send a strong message that we, THE PEOPLE, are fed up and aren’t going to take it anymore.
Comment Darlynn — October 14, 2006 @ 2:15 pm
Thanks to Celeste, the Libertyark Coordinator for my state, we have been asking for position statements from all candidates in the upcoming election. Almost without fail, the responses have come back with the incumbents on the fence or FOR it,and the opponents definitely against it! I’m thinking we should look at who their campaign contributions are coming from…
I agree with #1 above. The incumbents are going to have to be voted out.
Comment Valerie — October 14, 2006 @ 2:40 pm
We do not NEED to have any more of our rights taken away from us. I’ve been a small farmer for many years. IF NAIS kept animals from getting infected from diseases it might be all right, but it won’t.
Comment della callison — October 14, 2006 @ 3:11 pm
#12. It is an interesting fact that technically and legally one cannot create or modify their own animal feed. Sure you can make pet food suppliments, or Human supliments without FDA approval, but try tampering with livestock feed and you could be up the creek.
Why is it that the FDA has this authority over livestock? Sure they enter the food system sometime, but anyone who knows their animal husbandry should be allowed to brew up their own feed–most of which is 100% better for the animals than the stuff 90% of the feedstores sell anyway.
This is yet another example of Governmentaly departments sticking their noses into places where they don’t belong in order to justify their own existence.
Comment Podchef — October 14, 2006 @ 5:47 pm
#10: MN had a similar problem. It turns out the same lawfirm from Seattle which has entered lawsuits for every single e. coli outbreak since the 90’s is considering suing the USDA for their part in the cover-up.
Isn’t it interesting that the USDA which is the “farmer’s friend” and is imposing a huge, costly system to protect the world from disease and rouge animals had been caught twice (?) lately covering up public health issues relating, not to the animal diseases which NAIS is supposed to protect us from, but from Slaughterhouse and processing plant contamination?
What a typically useless organization. Instead of protecting farmers and consumers by watchdogging the industry they’ve set about turning the thumbscrews where they do the least good and while they’re busy tormenting good, honest folk the big boys are running amok with abandon.
If large scale agribusiness can police itself, than I say we small farmers can to. Ergo, Mr. President, scrap the USDA, pay off the deficit and redistribute the savings to all farmers instead of subsidies.
Comment Podchef — October 14, 2006 @ 6:00 pm
You’re on the right track! #14 …re : voting out those who openly support NAIS or who are on the fence, Well said. Recently I received a letter from Senator Sununu and a letter from Senator Gregg, both U.S. Senators for New Hampshire. These were in reply to my phone calls about not supporting funding NAIS, both were “form” letters. Neither letter was very clear, I’m no Rocket Scientist, but I think both Senators gave me a non answer (typical) and both letters were probably written by an aide anyhow. I think I’m going to ask them directly (if an unshaven peon like me will be granted 5 minutes of their precious time)for a better answer, in plain English DO YOU or DON’T YOU support funding NAIS? We have to tell our Legislators directly enough of the games and B.S. how about a straight answer? My next question for those politicians that support NAIS is, what other parts of the Bill of Rights do you intend to change, eh comrade? I enjoy commiserating here as much as any one, but I also intend to use the next few weeks to inform as many voters as I can the evils of NAIS.
This issue NAIS is perhaps THE Constitutional issue, if we lose this one, we’re a stones throw away from losing free speech. Don’t believe me? see - Patriot Act, Wire Tapping, National I.D., Suspension of Habeas Corpus etc. ‘nuf said! Let’s all commit to posting some flyers, writing some letters, making some calls, talking to people, heck throw a NONAIS party if that’s what it takes to convert some sheeple (I like that word… “sheeple”).. If anyone writes a letter to the editor, I respecfully suggest your letters in addition to informing the public what NAIS is and why it’s bad, that you also challenge your respective Congressional candidates to state their position on NAIS and if they support the Constitution etc. We need to call them out before it’s too late and take back “our” country.
Comment Bob Constantine — October 14, 2006 @ 6:47 pm
This is another violation of our Rights as US citizens. I strongly object to this whole idea!
What next? Numbers on our childrens foreheads when they’re born?
This is all wrong.
Comment Andrea — October 14, 2006 @ 9:28 pm
Here’s an insight into the recent e-coli outbreak - one that may serve to make a point in our letters and public outreach.
grainfedbeef
Comment donna — October 14, 2006 @ 10:15 pm
I read through the FDA’s Bioterrorism record keeping interpretation from the FDA link. That’s close to as scary as NAIS. According to that document, a farmer who cuts alfalfa and sells it to his neighbor would be forced to record all the items he purchased in production of that alfalfa, who he sold the alfalfa to and how it got transported. I guess that means he would have to keep track of the spools of bailing twine and who those bales got sold to. The cut off isif there is any post harvest processing which specifically included cutting alfalfa and packaging eggs. And according to that document, Copyrighted april 2006, even the smallest businesses (less than 11 employees) will have to comply by December 11 2006.
I’ll have to talk to my feed store and see what they are doing.
Afella in VT
Comment Afella in VT — October 14, 2006 @ 10:44 pm
Walter,I have the letter that went out to all the feed stores-coming soon.
Comment Celeste — October 14, 2006 @ 11:40 pm
Walter, here’s another storm alert target, posted by someone at Minnesotans Against NAIS:
Just read the newest edition of Countryside Magazine which had an update on na(z)is.:
According to John Weimers, USDA-APHIS liaison to the poultry working group says that he “had not had a single letter objecting to NAIS.”
All poultry owners are expected to participate. “You can’t let someone with six or eight or even 30 or 40 chickens put a whole state at risk,” he also said in an interview. ” You will not be able to hide. We’ll walk the street and check every yard.”
Secretary Johanns assured a press conference that the system would remain voluntary.
Wiemer’s contact info is:
John F. Wiemers, DVM, MS, USDA, APHIS, VS
National Animal Identification Staff
2100 S. Lake Storey Rd
Galesburg, IL 61401
phone 309-344-1942
fax 309-344-1489
cell 309-912-0191
John.F.Wiemers@aphis.usda.gov
[Funny… I’ve written him, talked with his boss, his associates in his office and asked him questions at a meeting all making it clear I object. Perhaps Dr. Wiemers is having early onset memory loss. I just sent him another letter to make sure we’re clear that “I object.” I would suggest other people do the same… -WJ]
Comment Susan Maricle — October 15, 2006 @ 4:03 am
I live in the great state of Idaho and in the past I have had some pretty good response from Larry Craig however, on this suject he seems to be weighing his options….in other words who is going to benefit. There is nothing in govn’t that can’t be tied who is loading their pockets the fastest so that when they bail it won’t hurt them as they are setup for life, their kids lives and their kids at least!!!
Most people have no idea of the huge impact this will have on every level of our lives as one thing is tied in some way to ‘right’ to survive. If this gets implemented we are all in peril. Looking at some of things that are being passed and proposed its down right scarey and this is a doozer.
I won’t comply and I will not require our new registery too either.
I’ll try anything to get Craig to listen so by golly I’ll answer his survey and write again….BTW if people get out and vote then Otter will hopefully go away….my guess is that he figures he’ll certainly benefit from this and he’ll slink around it so he can say later that he tried to say no but was out voted.
This state was already sold to the highest bidder by our last governor and Otter will continue the same road.
Terry
Comment Terry Jensen — October 15, 2006 @ 5:42 am
Slightly off topic, but 17 mentioned “pay off the deficeit” but it can’t be done. In the 1930’s, our Congress made its first major violation of the Constitution and created the Federal Reserve. The Fed is a private organization owned by international bankers. They own all US money. When the government wants money, the Fed prints what they want and loans it to the government at the current interest rate. SO, we taxpayers are perpetually paying interest to the Federal Reserve for loaning us our own money. How you do close a deficeit, much less get out of debt, when such a subtantial portion of the budget is being used to pay interest to international bankers on our own money?
As I said, slightly off topic, but this is the beginning of the mess we are currently in. Anyone interested take a look at this: http://www.nesara.us/pages/history.html
Comment Patricia Hampton — October 15, 2006 @ 8:54 am
Good points Patricia,
the thing about this mess,be it NAIS or national id cards or NAFTA or GATT or the UN or………….. is that it is all intertwined,and can all be traced back to our govt violating the Constitution and the Bill of Rights. We have let our govt run amuck for so long now that it believes it is in charge and that we are the servents to it.All of a sudden we as people wake up and find that we have been shafted and we wonder how they did it and how they continue to get away with all this nonsense.As I have said before this is not a democrat or republican issue this is a liberty issue and both of the “parties” are responsible for this mess, I think it is high time that “we the people” crashed their “parties” and throw a bunch of them out on their rear ends and show them in no uncertain terms that we are in charge, I know that many folks feel that voting is ineffective, I feel that way many times but it is one of the only tools we have left at our disposal that may be useful to institute change,it would upset alot of planners out there if they or their lackeys wake up the morning after and find that they are out of power and replaced by others who perhaps actually believe they are to serve the people, a long shot? Maybe but its worth a try, please folks don’t set home this time and hope others will change it for you, we need every voice, most of you have heard it before but remember Hitler won by a vote, what if two more people had bothered to vote against him, how might things have been different? We can make a difference, if we try, vote all the bums who work against your liberty out, good luck to each of you,thanks!
Comment LEE — October 15, 2006 @ 10:28 am
Mr. Wiemers ate to much USDA-TESTED BEEF! That is why he is experiencing memory loss.
Comment Gisela — October 15, 2006 @ 12:14 pm
In response to Walter, comment #23: Thanks for writing! Here’s what I sent. I hope many other people send letters too.
Dear Mr. Weimers:
I understand you haven’t received a single letter opposing NAIS. I’m not surprised. Livestock industry professionals who will benefit from NAIS have been at the table since 2002. Small-scale farmers weren’t brought on board until this year, during the summer, which is our busiest time. Watch your mail, I’m sure you’ll be getting many letters now.
I call NAIS No Chicken Left Behind because it reminds me of No Child Left Behind, which drains resources from public schools while enriching providers of testing services. NAIS will drain resources from small farmers while enriching providers of database and microchip products and services.
George W. Bush promotes the “ownership society.” I take pleasure and pride in raising my own livestock for my own table. Like many small-scale farmers, I choose to live simply and on a limited budget. The implementation fees of NAIS will hit small-scale farmers hardest, making livestock ownership unsustainable. NAIS goes against what George W. Bush promotes.
To quote the President again, “Let the market decide.” If agribusinesses want NAIS so they can enter overseas markets, let them decide. If smaller livestock owners have no need for it, let them decide.
Ronald Reagan said that the most frightening words are, “I’m from the government and I’m here to help.” American citizens have learned to not rely on the government for retirement security or for emergency response to natural disasters. You can understand why people are skeptical about federal efforts to stop disease—especially when numerous FDA-approved pharmaceuticals have been found to be harmful.
I think the grassroots opposition to NAIS caught the USDA by surprise. This opposition is strong because it has bipartisan support. I’m a Democrat and NAIS has me quoting George Bush and Ronald Reagan, of all people. If you’re keeping count, count me as a person who says “no” to a mandatory NAIS. Thank you for your time, Mr. Weimers.
Sincerely,
Susan Maricle
Bruno MN
Comment Susan Maricle — October 15, 2006 @ 1:47 pm
There are already plenty of regulations in place to safeguard the food supply; they just need to be enforced. However, money talks and big business only has to grease the palms, so to speak, of authoritative politicians or administration kingpins and we have more needless policy.
NAIS is just a progression in the line of lost freedoms. Years ago dog licensing was implemented and people participated believing there was no harm. Next, limits to number of dogs owned were put in place, and people generally complied. Thereafter, licenses for cats seemed a money raiser for local municipalities and it is, but people conformed. Registering your pets is not harmless. Or is it? Through such sublime activity, government is very subtly gaining control of its populace. Suspiciously, big business becomes its bed partner in surveillance and scrutiny of unknowing Americans. It’s getting worse. GPS tracking is no big deal to anyone; we pay for it in our cars and with cell phones, well, we can’t bear to be separated from it. Scanners in our grocery stores provide anyone that pays for it, a ton of information about us. In another instance, under of disguise of protection and safety, we are encouraged to fingerprint, and perhaps DNA register, our children. Wake up America. Our government advocates spying and is at work deviously collecting information about us, tracking our every move, and probably sharing it with its cohorts, which could lead to very harmful and undesirable outcomes.
NAIS is merely another attempt of government forcing us to yield to further surveillance and scrutiny, to forfeit certain unalienable rights afforded us by our founding fathers, and to discharge with prejudice nonconformity. There is a repugnant disease among us, and it is not spread by the animals on America’s small farms. It’s APATHY! But, then, that is what the pharmaceuticals, big gas and oil, and government endeavor. Be careful, folks. If they catch on that you are still thinking, they’ll label you and me as dysfunctional and at a time late at night swoop down and “cure” us in such a way that we’ll imagine it was another time, another part of the world, under another tyrannical regime!
Comment Tia in Washington — October 15, 2006 @ 3:24 pm
Podchef, in #16 were you referring to S73, the Animal Feed Protection Act of 2005, or some other legislation?
Comment Texas Goat Gal — October 15, 2006 @ 3:54 pm
Texas Goat Gal, I was refering more to the CVM feed additive and ingredient regulations and the AFSS–animal feed safety system–which limit anyone from just mixing up feed and selling it. I also imagine under normal circumstances if you were selling cattle in a market and were found to be using a non-standard, non-regulated feed, there would be trouble as well given today’s climate.
Speficially, I was thinking about a pro-biotic feed additive which is quite commonly used by some for cattle, chickens, and infact most livestock. However, the basic formula cannot be marketed as an animal probiotic per regulations, and if you use it anything you create cannot, technically be sold. All this I learned from a seminar and reading about this specific pro-biotic formula.
Not that it has ever been the case, but I am sure in today’s world using it in or mentioning it or giving away feed which has been enhanced by its use would bring the feds around in a hurry. Because normal people aren’t supposed to tamper with regulated feeds–or create their own–even if their additives are 100% natural, help prevent diseases, keep the animals healthy, increase weight gain and reduce livestock pen odors. Only the big boys can medicate feed because that keeps the wheels of industry lubed with oil.
Comment Podchef — October 15, 2006 @ 6:11 pm
Regarding the info in the link on comment #25….
oh dear…
http://www.quatloos.com/NESARA.htm
…but isn’t it nice to think so?
Sigh.
Comment Concerned Citizen — October 15, 2006 @ 8:08 pm
As a residence of Ct small farmer and a member of the horse council we oppose NAIS. Most of us are small farmers in this state and many are just getting by with the prices rising each year. This would be a hardship for most plus our rights to have livestock and what we consider pets on our property without a tracking device tagged to their ear’s. We are fighting it here in CT becaus of what USDA is trying to impose on us. We feel these rights that we hold dear here in the US would be taken away. No to NAIS and USDA
Comment debra — October 16, 2006 @ 5:49 am
Must be CFJ because I’ve written weimers too.
Comment Sue F — October 16, 2006 @ 2:54 pm
#32
Being from CT, I’d like to connect with you and others on this issue. Do you have a group formed?
[You’ll find a list of discussion groups in the right sidebar. There is one for CT. -WJ]
Comment Bee — October 16, 2006 @ 6:47 pm
Not being a news junkie, I’ve only recently learned how invasive NAIS has already become. Besides contacting senators and congressmen (done), what opposition can we mount? How costly can non-compliance get?
Any comments welcome.
[Spreading the word is a big part of it. Unfortunately very few people know about NAIS. I am amazed at the number of people who I run into who don’t know about it and don’t believe it could possibly be real. Write letters to the editor, tell your friends, hang posters, etc. All in addition to submitting comments to the USDA and your legislators. Get heard. -WJ]
Comment Bob Madden — October 17, 2006 @ 1:16 pm
To No. 36, fines of up to $1000 per day per violation have been discussed in some states, but it will be up to the state. The bottom line will be how much will it take to intimidate everyone? To #32 and #35, check liberyark.net and see if there is a CT group you can help. If not, there is some excellent guidance for forming one. #32, if we don’t do something fast about a NESARA or equivalent, our Constitution will become a moot point in 2010, which is when we are looking at becoming one with Canada and Mexico under the North American Union.
Comment Patricia Hampton — October 18, 2006 @ 7:28 am