August 20, 2006

Questions USDA Won’t Answer

Commentary — walterj 7:28 pm

Many people asked about the long promised interview with the USDA. I have sad news: The USDA faked the pass and is now running towards the wrong end zone. If I didn’t know better I would say they aren’t even playing by the rules anymore… In short I doubt they’ll ever come through on the answers to the interview questions despite their months of promises.

Back on March 20th, 2006 I spoke on the phone with Neil Hammerschmidt, the USDA’s Animal ID Coordinator. On the phone he gave me assurances that they were only interested in interested in animals with significant comingling or animals that were going into the “anonymous wholesale food stream” as he put it. At that time Mr. Hammerschmidt asked me me to email interview questions that he would answer, with the help of his department. I did so. He turned it over to Dore Mobley in his office.

It is now August 20th, 2006, four months after I sent in my questions. I still have not received replies to any of these questions. I call or email them almost every week to check in and am told, “Soon”, “It takes a lot of time”, “We’re almost done”, “We’re all done and just checking the answers”, etc. At this point neither Mr. Hammerschmidt or Ms. Mobley have returned my calls or emails for over a month.

I suspect that they have no intention of answering the questions. Is this typical of the USDA, to make promises repeatedly and then to break them? To simply cease communications? Our government at inaction. Think of it is a still-life sculpture in full motion on a treadmill. This is not the sort of thing that is going to instill trust in the USDA.

I’m told by a very reliable source, Dr. Mary Zanoni of Farm For Life, that on July 17th, while leaving the Berks County, PA forum Mr. Hammerschmidt first told Dr. Zanoni that Dore Mobley was handling it [my interview questions] and then he said that “Guide for Small Producers” had answered my questions back in the June 2nd, 2006. Unfortunately that document falls far short of addressing the issues for even non-commercial livestock owners never mind all the other many issues for micro-farmers any anyone else who might sell an animal, procure a replacement animal, etc. The USDA really should have had real homesteaders and micro-farmers proof that document before releasing it. Most tellingly, in early July Ms. Mobley told me that they would be sending me a written response to the interview questions that week. This was long after the release of the release of the June document. Ms. Mobley told me, “We’ve answered the questions and are just rechecking them and should have them to send to you the end of this week.” Apparently the USDA uses non-standard calendars or is in warp-drive time dilation in addition to forgetting how to give straight answers. Either that or they have forgotten how to tell the truth.

I thought people might be interested in seeing the questions the USDA has punted. You might find these useful if you have the opportunity to question USDA or state ag officials at hearings. Feel free to forward a copy of this to the USDA at the addresses below as a reminder that we small livestock owners still exist. Maybe if enough of us storm them they’ll realize that they really should keep their promises and answer these important questions.

Send comments to:
Animal ID Comments
Neil Hammerschmidt
Dore Mobley
Mike Johanns

I would also recommend sending copies, along with additional questions you have, to your state representatives and state department of Agriculture. Consider alerting your local newspaper to this issue - they may be curious as to why the USDA won’t answer these questions. The USDA seem to always be focusing helping on the big guys, the economic powerhouses who produce 85% of the agricultural output yet represent only a tiny percentage of the producers who would be affected by NAIS. NAIS will help Big-Ag by giving them trace-back at almost no cost since they get to use Group lots for identification yet NAIS will hurt the micro-farmers and homesteaders who make up the majority of the livestock owners.


The long awaited non-interview of
The Questions the USDA Won’t Answer

Subject: Interview Questions regarding NAIS
Date: April 24, 2006 2:44:48 PM EDT
To: Neil.E.Hammerschmidt@usda.gov

Hello Mr. Hammerschmidt,     April 20th, 2006

We spoke on the phone on March 20th about the USDA’s proposed draft of the National Animal Identification system and you graciously agreed to an interview by email. It has taken me a while to compile the questions from reader comments on my web site http://NoNAIS.org. I have sorted the questions into groups below to make it easier.

I use the term micro farms. By this I mean the very small farms, smaller than what I read as small in most of the USDA literature. These are very common in rural Vermont as well as rural areas in other parts of the country. Typically they would be in the lower income levels, likely be part time, have no full-time employees and very probably no employees at all other than the owner/family. Almost all micro farms market their produce and livestock directly to end consumers. This would include most hobby farms and virtually all farms here in Vermont. These represent the majority of the readers of NoNAIS.org.

Another term I use is homesteaders. These are people raising food just for their own consumption with the possible occasional direct sale to friends, family and neighbors. These represent the next largest group of readers of NoNAIS.org.

I don’t know what terms you use for these groups. If you will let me know what you call these groups I’ll be able to use the correct term.

A lot of the questions deal with specific instances of applications of the rules. I have tried to avoid duplication in any of the questions. There are a few instances where very similar questions appear in separate sections.

I look forward to your answers and hope that we can dispel some of the misunderstandings surrounding NAIS as well as modify the draft regulations to accommodate the needs of the very small livestock holders.

Please email be back when you get this so that I know the email made it through to you.

Thank you,

Walter Jeffries
Sugar Mountain Farm
& http://NoNAIS.org

— Questions for Neil E. Hammerschmidt,
USDA Animal ID Coordinator —

Participation - My first question may be a key misunderstanding between the USDA, states and the very small livestock holders. On the phone you said that “the NAIS program is intended to deal with the animals that co-mingling and go into in the anonymous wholesale food stream.”

  • Is that a correct statement?
  • Could you please give examples of what would be covered by NAIS?
  • Can you give counter examples of what would not be covered by NAIS?

Mandatory vs Voluntary - In the April 2006 document it talks on page 3, 1st paragraph about the system being voluntary unless there is insufficient participation.

  • Who must participate and at what level to make it stay voluntary?
  • Are homesteaders and the micro farms counted in the required level?
  • How many of each group do you estimate there are in the United States?
    • Large farms (and what defines them)
    • Small farms (and what defines them)
    • Non-producers (e.g., slaughter houses, etc. definition?)
    • Micro farms
    • Homesteaders
    • Pet livestock owners

Tagging & Tracking - A big part of people’s concern is related to the tagging. Tags cost money. The cost goes beyond the simple cost of the tag. Applicators and other equipment cost money. These costs are a heavy burden for micro farmers and homesteaders. Tracking stations are not going to be much help for most people in rural situations - they have no way of transporting animals easily and are widely spread out. To a large producer these costs are nominal. Large producers get to use Group IDs and not tag animals. Small producers generally have more traditional barnyards with many age groups of many breeds and species so they are not able to take advantage of the Group IDs. Large operations will be able to use all-in/all-out production and save time & money by using group ID’s. Micro farms and homesteaders will not be able to take advantage of this putting them at a large economic disadvantage. The large number of tags become an overwhelming cost in both time and money.

  • If animals are in a mixed aged and possibly a mixed species situation will there be a way to avoid the individual tagging?
  • Will animals need to be tagged and what reports must be filed to go to:
    • the vet?
    • slaughter & butcher for home consumption?
    • slaughter & butcher for direct sales?
    • breed? (at another premise)
    • breed? (coming to our premise)
  • Must newly purchased animals be tagged?
  • Must animals being sold to go to another premise be tagged?
  • Must animals being purchased for home consumption be tagged?
  • If someone has breeding stock animals and sells the offspring, such as piglets, lambs, etc, to other people will the young animals need to be tagged?
  • Will there be a non-RFID option such as visually read tags and tattoos for every species for people who are opposed to RFID?

Co-mingling - On the phone you had mentioned that the intent of the program was to deal with “animals that co-mingle”. One example of co-mingling that keeps coming up is horses on trail rides. Trail rides generally cross many people’s properties in addition to public roads. People take their pet livestock (e.g., horses, goats, pigs) for walks on public roads and private trails. Animals escape and cross premises boundaries. People are very concerned about the time and cost involved with all the reporting. Will these be considered co-mingling and what reporting will be necessary for:

  • A single animal crossing multiple premises?
  • Group trail rides across multiple premises?
  • A single animal on public roads?
  • Group trail rides on public roads?
  • If someone else’s animal crosses your property must you report it?
  • What happens if you are unaware of the animal crossing your property?

Walk-abouts - Livestock sometimes escape and cross many premises before they are recovered. Many times it is unknown what premises they have been on and sometimes they are missing for months before they are recovered. Reporting for each movement is required within 24-hours but it will be impossible. I have a neighbor (other side of the mountains) who lost three cows. They were gone for several months. At one point they were seen on our property. He finally did get them back but by then they had possibly crossed hundreds of property boundaries. Animals escape. In another example our herding dogs went and gathered up the neighbor’s sheep one time. How will these events be handled?

Reporting - Reporting is required electronically within 24 hours.

  • How must reports be made?
  • How will people without internet, electricity or phone service report?
  • Will we have to report births?
  • Will we have to report deaths?
  • What about deaths by predators?
  • What about missing animals? (Could be a predator or escape)
  • What about random deaths (animals die sometimes with no apparent cause).

Pets - Some states are expanding NAIS and similar programs to include pets. Cats and pet birds (like budgies, parrots, etc) are susceptible to Avian Flu. Cats and dogs are susceptible to rabies. In the USDA NAIS Q&A it states: “The NAIS is being developed for all animals that will benefit from having a system to facilitate rapid traceback/traceout in the event of disease concern.” This would appear to include domestic pets such as birds, cats, dogs, reptiles, etc.

  • In the future will the USDA require premise ID, animal ID or tracking of domestic cats, dogs or pet birds etc?

Fees - The fees appear to be mostly set at the state level and vary greatly state to state but there are a lot of questions remaining there.

  • What are the fees going to be?
  • Premise Registration?
  • Reporting Fees?
  • Other?
  • If no fees now then how do we guarantee it will stay that way?
  • If 3rd parties handle the databases will they be allowed to charge fees?
  • How much is NAIS going to cost tax payers annually:
    • In taxes?
    • In increased fees to farmers which will be passed on to food buyers and other costs?
    • Has a cost analysis of the system been done?

Burden - What are considered small amounts of fees, fines and costs by large farms and wealthy people can be overwhelming to micro farmers and poor rural folk who are already living at or below the poverty level. This puts the micro farms at an unfair disadvantage economically and acts as a hidden tax on food for individuals raising their own meat.

  • Is there any plan to mitigate these costs for low income farmers and low income individuals?

Individual Compliance - In rural areas a great many folk buy a spring pig or lamb to raise over the summer for their meat. For them NAIS is overwhelming, threatening and unnecessary from their point of view. A rigid system with no exceptions is likely to generate great resistance to compliance. It will be impossible to achieve 100% compliance. Any system that promotes resistance to compliance through complexity or burdens will fail, endangering its overall goal through non-compliance which spreads upward. The needs and resources of the very small livestock holders are very different from those of larger livestock holders. A system should recognize this and apply regulations that will accommodate both groups.

  • What level of compliance will be necessary to achieve the USDA’s goals?
    • Among states?
    • Among large producers?
    • Among small producers?
    • Among micro producers?
    • Among homesteaders?
    • Among pet livestock owners?
  • How does the USDA expect to achieve compliance in each of these groups?
  • What is the USDA willing to do to meet the needs of the very small producers?

State Level Compliance - In a mandatory program you must have enforcement. What if a state does not cooperate with:

  • Premise ID?
  • Animal ID?
  • Animal movement reporting? (trace-back)

[This one is especially interesting since Vermont’s Secretary of Agriculture Steve Kerry has just declared [1, 2, [3] that Vermont will not cooperate with the USDA. -WJ]

Enforcement - A mandatory program without enforcement is toothless. In state statues I find fines for non-compliance of $1,000 to $5,000 per day per violation.

  • How will the USDA go about enforcing the components of NAIS:
    • Premise ID?
    • Animal ID?
    • Movement Reporting?
  • Under what statues does this fall?
  • Is it a state level issue or federal?
  • What will the fines be?
  • Will there be differentiation between corporate level fines vs micro farm vs private individuals. In Vermont the fine is up to $5,000 per day per violation and a maximum of $25,000 per occurrence. For a big producer that is nothing but for a micro farmer or homesteader that is overwhelming.

Authority - There are questions about NAIS as a states rights issue.

  • Does the USDA have authority to make NAIS mandatory in states or will the states have to cooperate and implement it at the state level?
  • If the USDA does have this authority, then under what laws?
  • Why is NAIS being instituted as a regulation rather than legislation?
  • What is the specific enabling legislation for NAIS?
  • Is the USDA willing to keep NAIS voluntary until such time as Congress passes legislation that makes it mandatory?

Liability - RFID tags have already caused one recall of meat in SD (2004 SD research project http://archives.foodsafetynetwork.ca/fsnet/2004/9-2004/fsnet_sept_19.htm#story7 ).

  • How will the USDA prevent the RFID chips from getting into the food stream?
  • If a consumer is injured by a chip, who is liable? The store, the wholesaler, the butcher, the slaughter house, the farmer, the tag maker, the state government or the federal government?
  • Can the chips become lodged in the person who swollows one?
  • How can farmers protect themselves? (liability insurance is not the answer)
  • How can farmers protect themselves for liability for food born diseases that occure downstream of them at the slaughter house, processing plant, etc?

Constitutionality - There is a great deal of concern about the USDA’s proposed NAIS regulations violating the US Constitution and people’s privacy. Specifically there have been questions of NAIS violating Amendments 1, 4, 5, 14 and possibly 13.

  • What is the USDA’s response to this?

False Trace-back - A big concern among breeders of livestock is false trace-back. I am a pig breeder. We have our own breeding herd. In addition to selling raised up pastured pigs direct to customers we also sell piglets to a great many rural folk who raise up a summer pig for their family’s consumption and often one to sell as well. What happens if we sell a piglet and it catches a disease _after_ it leaves our farm? We don’t want that piglet to be erroneously traced back to our farm and have it result in the depopulation of our breeding stock. Under depopulation the USDA can come in and kill our livestock without any testing. Many breeders I have spoken with say they will stop if NAIS goes through as currently outlined.

  • How do we prevent this type of false trace-back?
  • How do we protect micro farmers breeding stock?

Heritage Breeds - The Depopulation, false trace-back and burdens of NAIS are going to make it even harder for heritage breeds of animals to be maintained. There will be fewer micro farmers, homesteaders and hobbyists willing to do it. A goal of agriculture is to maintain these heritage breeds so that they will be a genetic reserve for the future. Mono-cropping, in plants and animals, is bad policy.

  • How will the USDA forward the goal of genetic diversity under the burden of NAIS so as to prevent the extinction of rare and heritage breeds?

Exceptions - The registration process, numbering of the beasts, use of RFID technology, computers and phones are violations of some people’s religious beliefs and lifestyles. The costs in fees, equipment, time and potential fines are a heavy burden for very small livestock holders. Will there be exceptions for:

  • Religious and social groups such as the Amish?
  • Micro farmers?
  • Private consumption?
  • Direct sales? (not to anonymous wholesale commercial food stream)
  • Other?

Polls - US Agriculture Secretary Mike Johanns cites a poll in April 2006 of farmers showing support for NAIS. This is virtually the exact opposite result I get when I poll small stakeholders: micro farmers, homesteaders and pet livestock owners. Two other poll results that have been done by a newspaper and a farm site show the same thing I found - over 90% of the people opposing NAIS. The small stakeholders greatly outnumber the big stake holders but are not being represented.

  • How can we get the voice of small farmers heard in these polls so that the polls are truly representative of the people?

Stakeholder input to the USDA - Up until now it is the large stakeholders who have had significant input to the USDA. This has resulted in a plan that fits their needs and goals but is a heavy burden on the smallest stakeholders including the very micro farms, homesteaders and pet livestock owners. In most cases the very small stakeholders were not even aware of this program until recently. You had mentioned on the phone that the very small, the micro-producers, had not been considered in the process of formulating the NAIS regulations and that the rules needed to be updated to reflect this and correct the problems. There are a number of working groups that represent the needs of large stakeholders and some breed groups but none that represent homesteaders and micro-farmers. Some of the breed groups have actively alienated very small producers with their position on NAIS. Additionally, virtually all of the very small livestock owners have many different species of many different age groups which makes their situation uniquely different from typical farms that are focussed on one breed of one species.

  • How can we form a working group to provide input to the USDA on NAIS from these micro farms, homesteaders and pet livestock owner groups?
  • When and how can the public make comments on the proposal to have input on the decision making process?

Depopulation - On page 31 of GAO document 05-214 it talks about depopulation of both diseased and healthy animals, wild and domestic, in 10-km zones around infections. This is one of the big issues that concerns a great many small stakeholders and is alienating people. People see this as a violation of their 4th Amendment Constitutional rights and protections against warrant-less search and seizure. This will also kill off heritage breeds of livestock, some of which are protected by law. The depopulation program outlined in the GAO document 05-214 will make our country more susceptible to terrorist attacks.

  • Why is the government pursuing a policy of killing healthy animals?
  • Why is the government not doing testing?
  • How can we modify this program to not have killing of healthy animals?
  • Quarantine - If a flock, or herd, is simply quarantined for the duration of the outbreak then depopulation would not be necessary. Why is the USDA not pursuing quarantine as a first line of defense instead of depopulation?

Vaccination - I understand that on the large factory farms it might not appear feasible but at least on micro farms we already normally vaccinate young animals for other diseases. A vaccination policy might eliminate the need for depopulation which concerns so many people so greatly.

  • Why is the USDA pursuing depopulation instead of vaccination?

Compensation - In a recent news report DeHaven is quoted as saying: “Owners will want to report sick birds because they will be paid fair market value for destroyed flocks.” But at the April 20th meeting with the Vermont House Ag Committee, Dr. Wiemers of the USDA said there was not likely to be any compensation.

  • If there are killings of livestock will the government compensate?
  • If so then at what rate? (Breeding stock is worth far more than the fair market value of animals destined for slaughter. A hog sells for a few hundred dollars. A sow produces $80,000 of offspring and is a valuable genetic reserve that may be irreplaceable, especially if a whole herd of heritage breeding stock is killed.)

Terrorism - Depopulation and kill zones (10-km radius of depopulation) make us susceptible to terrorist attacks because the terrorists could wipe out large areas of agriculture by simply planting a disease every 20-km. This would create interlocking kill zones.

  • How will the USDA deal with this opening up of an opportunity to terrorists?

Voluntary Testing - Japan and possibly other countries are using this voluntary testing to ensure a healthy beef supply. The USDA has a test for BSE that can be done at slaughter time. See: http://www.creekstonefarmspremiumbeef.com/news_bse_press.html This makes it look like the USDA has a decided conflict of interest going on.

  • Why is the USDA blocking the voluntary testing of beef cattle for BSE?

Security - No database system is secure. Every database system can be hacked and violated, either by outsiders or insiders. The government has chosen a Microsoft database system - this is a company with a long history of security breaches. Many people do not feel their data will be secure from competitors, other government agencies, hackers and animal rights terrorists who could use the data to hurt livestock owners.

  • How will the government protect livestock owners from these and other types of misuse of data?
  • Will the government accept liability for damages resulting from the misuse of the data?
  • In what forms and at what locations is USDA/APHIS presently maintaining or storing information that has been collected pursuant to the “voluntary premises registration” program?
  • What is the substance of the communications and/or discussions that USDA/APHIS has had with state agriculture and/or animal health agencies about using existing state or private collections of information — for example, brand registrations, dairy producer licenses, or breed-association membership and animal registration data — as sources for voluntary premises registrations or voluntary individual animal identification?
  • USDA/APHIS states in the information on its website concerning NAIS: “The interim phase of the integration of private and state databases will be initiated by April of this year (2006).” Please explain what is meant by the “interim phase of the integration of private and state databases” and how such integration will work.
  • One way to ferret out security holes is to offer a “Hacking Reward” for anyone who succeeds in hacking the system. If this were offered, maintained and nobody was able to break it this would improve the perception of security. If someone succeeded then knowing how they did it would improve the actual security of the system. Is this something the USDA would do?

Timeline - You had said on the phone that the current draft is outdated and in need of revision.

  • When will the draft plan be updated to reflect corrections?
  • When will the upcoming comment period be?
  • How do people go about properly making comments?

Market Driven - The USDA’s Dr. Wieners in his testimony before the Vermont House Agriculture Committee on April 20th, 2006 compared the USDA’s NAIS program to credit cards - a market driven purely voluntary program in which almost everybody participates. I like that comparison. This would solve a lot of the problems with NAIS. For example:

  • - Premises ID would be made ubiquious to all locations and simply managed as part of the 911 emergency program. This eliminates the need for a redundant location identification system and does not single out farmers, homesteaders or other livestock holders. This makes sense since it looks like all animals will be included so lets just be honest and do it right from the start. Doing it this way makes Premises ID already exist.
  • - Animal ID would only be required if one were selling into the anonymous wholesale commercial food stream and possibly interstate traffic of animals. For direct sales there would be no need for Animal ID.
  • - Trace-Back would only be required for export sales and be market driven by those consumers who demand it of producers. For example, McDonalds has said they want trace-back, so let them pay a premium to get it. Don’t subsidize their corporate profits which under cuts the farmers by making NAIS mandatory such that there will be no premium. This premium would raise the income of farmers who chose to participate.

Would the USDA consider a purely voluntary market driven program where NAIS is only required if a producer wants to sell into the anonymous wholesale commercial food stream or for export?

Thank you for your help in answering these questions. I look forward to your answers and hope that we can clear up some of the misunderstandings and reformulate NAIS to better fit the needs of all livestock owners.

Sincerely,

Walter Jeffries

Some of the USDA’s responses showing their early intention to answer the questions:

From: Dore.M.Mobley@aphis.usda.gov
Subject: NAIS Interview Questions regarding NAIS
Date: May 2, 2006 3:58:24 PM EDT
To: walterj@blacklightning.com

Hi Mr. Jeffries,

Thank you for your recent query regarding the National Animal Identification System dated April 20, 2006. Mr. Hammerschmidt has forwarded your questions to me for response. I am currently reviewing your questions and preparing an appropriate written response.

Thanks,

Dore

Dore M Mobley, Public Affairs Specialist
U.S. Department of Agriculture
Animal & Plant Health lnspection Service
4700 River Road
Riverdale, MD 20737
(301) 734-7255
Dore.M.Mobley@aphis.usda.gov

From: Dore.M.Mobley@aphis.usda.gov
Subject: Re: Interview on NAIS
Date: May 25, 2006 1:49:19 PM EDT
To: walterj@SugarMtnFarm.com

Hi Mr. Jeffries,

I am still working on them. There were a lot of them. I’ll do my best to get you something soon.

Thanks,

Dore

Dore M Mobley, Public Affairs Specialist
U.S. Department of Agriculture
Animal & Plant Health lnspection Service
4700 River Road
Riverdale, MD 20737
(301) 734-7255
Dore.M.Mobley@aphis.usda.gov

In response to:
From: Walter Jeffries
05/25/2006 01:47 PM
To: Dore.M.Mobley@aphis.usda.gov
Subject: Interview on NAIS

Hi Dore,

I just wanted to check with how you were doing on the questions I had sent to Mr. Hammerschmidt.

Thank you,

Walter Jeffries
Sugar Mountain Farm in Vermont
Pastured Pigs & Sheep
http://SugarMtnFarm.com/blog/

“Transparency in government is like a curtain around a black hole. You can’t see a thing and in the end it all gets sucked in.” -WJ

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33 Comments »

  1. Dore Mobley is a Public Affairs Specialist? So your many valid questions were delegated to someone, I assume, whose role is more PR than regulatory? That fact makes it obvious that Neil Hammerschmidt feels the questions concerning the small producer aren’t worth his attention. Do you suppose Dore Mobley handled all the planning with the NIAA? I doubt it! It would have been interesting if Hammerschmidt had delegated the NIAA to answer your questions since they seem to have more influence in this whole thing than the USDA.
    The scope of these questions illustrate what a complex subject NAIS is. I guess we, the lowly small farmers/ranchers, are just supposed to trust the system, sign up and believe that the USDA will do what is best for us as they make up the rules as they go along.
    The sad thing is that I keep talking to local ranchers and farmers who aren’t aware of NAIS and they think we are crazy to think it will ever happen. I talked to a fifth generation cattleman just this week. His family settled our area in the 1800’s. He doesn’t have cattle but leases his property to a cattle producer which would draw him into the loop as the premise owner. He left shaking his head and acting like we were kooks who had just told him we had seen aliens.

    Comment Mary Beth — August 20, 2006 @ 9:37 pm

  2. walter,
    very compelling. if i might suggest, the number and complexity of the questions might be broken into several emails as an effort to actually get some response. i get the impression that they were overwhelmed by the questions especially since most of them were sensitive and if answered inappropriately might be job threatening. i don’t have sympathy for them but it might be easier to fight smaller battles and compile them into a campaign–metaphorically.

    [Mr. H asked for the whole thing in one shot as a interview thus why I did it all. -WJ]

    Comment karl — August 21, 2006 @ 5:22 am

  3. They hav a lot of gall!!!!!!!! They agreed to anser your questions and should have. You should ask again and push tem. I want to know the answers to these.

    Comment PV — August 21, 2006 @ 5:33 am

  4. I was told by a person that is planning to subcontract for NIAS or USDA That they know this whole thing is Unconstitunal , and to ward off law suites, they are going to use the umbrella of Home Land security department to deflect any law suits that may come their way from informed ranchers and farmers! Im not as concerned with questions answered as I an the infringement of my privacy and my constitutional rights…NIAS NEEDS TO BE DEFEATED…WE Need to Scream LOUDER.. Don’t vote for anyone that supports this in Your state and keep writing your officals!

    Comment Betty — August 21, 2006 @ 6:39 am

  5. Walter maybe they are busy doing damage control. I do feel we are making some difference and every day, with the amount of new visitors to your site, I know the word IS getting out there. The internet makes our world a much smaller place.

    Comment Goatster — August 21, 2006 @ 7:38 am

  6. “Dore Mobley is a Public Affairs Specialist?”

    I got the impression at the Berks Co. meeting that she is a legal assistant or lawyer. That’s why I stated to her that the plan is unConstitutional. She didn’t have an answer for that either.

    Comment Barbara — August 21, 2006 @ 7:45 am

  7. My goodness! If they’re overwhelmed with these questions just imagine the nightmarish, over-whelming and impossible task they’ll have to keep on target and time with all the co-mingling reports!

    The whole thing is ridiculous.

    I copied all the questions, pasted them in a new email today and sent them off with a quick note inquiring as to when we might expect answers … Sent off to
    Mr. Hammer- whoozie.

    Maybe we should just overwhelm them a tad bit more so they can get lots of practice on how to keep records and on time. Hmmmmmmmmm …

    –Gwen

    Comment Gwen — August 21, 2006 @ 7:49 am

  8. The reason they did not answer your questions is you are so thorough about exposing their lies. I notice that your questions are designed to find out the truth and asked carefully to expose their lies. If they answer the questions honestly the fraud of NAIS would be revealed. They are afraid of the truth and afraid of losing their jobs.

    I have made a copy of this post and am sending it to my local news papers and to my legislative representatives and to the USDA to.I am also making copies and hanging them on bulletin boards like at our feed store. People need to know the USDA is is committing fraud. THe questions they refuse to answer are very telling of their real intentions.

    Mark V.

    Comment Mark V. — August 21, 2006 @ 9:44 am

  9. walter you are my hero. you have spent so much time making this fight to prevent our own government from abusing us and you are succeeding ash proven in vermont! i see a lot of other web site where they front and center and in big letters are always asking people to send donations of money so they can take the time to fight nais. but you tell us not to send money. how can you do that? it must be taking a huge amount of your time that you could be spending doing something more fun or earning money. you must have expenses for printing and paying for this website and stuff. why dont you ask for donations? how are you supporting your fight all by yourself? you dont even have ads on your web site. with all your readers you could make some money that way.

    [Thanks for the kudos, Anna. I blog about NAIS because I passionately want the government and Big-Ag to leave me alone. Likewise it should leave you and others alone. I haven’t accomplished anything by myself. Rather it is the mass of thousands of people who have been shouting loudly to make our voices heard. A very big part of why I setup this web site was I knew that I could not derail this train all by myself. But I imagined that if 10,000 other people would shout we could crumble the walls. The USDA is taking notice as are state Departments of Agriculture. We have had amazing success in Vermont and Texas. But we still have a long battle in front of us.

    It is sad that the government is whittling away at our rights and privacy. This is precisely what our founders attempted to prevent over 200 years ago. It is also terrible that you and I have to waste our time trying to keep the basic rights that the founders built into the foundation of our nation, in our Constitution. I look forward and see a society that I would not like to leave to my children. This is why I fight against NAIS. Sadly it is but one symptom of the decay.

    As to money, unfortunately I’m not rich and sitting idle - sure, I would love money. Fortunately a blog doesn’t cost much. I don’t think I’ve spent even $1,000 fighting NAIS. I know the “Granny Warriors”, Celeste, Doreen, Dick, Betsy, Sue, Sharon, Mary, Judith, Mike and many other people have spent far more dollars working to fight NAIS. :) It is the distributed, dispersed, diverse nature of our grassroots movement that gives us power. What is important is each person is writing letters, making copies of handouts and fliers, etc. Some people have also taken out ads in their local newspapers, made or bought bumper stickers, etc. By everyone doing a little bit as they can it distributes the costs. Anything that gets the word out is good.

    Quite a few people, including my wife, have suggested I put ads on NoNAIS.org to generate some income since there are so many readers. It is an idea. I have ads on my Sugar Mountain Farm blog. I have been hesitant to do it here on NoNAIS.org for fear of somehow tainting the “purity” of the web site. On the other hand I wouldn’t mind the little bit of income from ads - sometimes things get tight. So far I’ve heard from people (8 or 9?) who think I should put ads on the blog. I have also heard from one person who said she was glad I don’t have ads. I would be interested in other people’s opinion.

    The reason I don’t ask for donations is I do not have non-profit status and I don’t know what all the issues are regarding accepting donations. It sounds complicated. I would not want proponents of NAIS, like the government, to somehow use my accepting donations against us. A few people have sent small checks. I’ve used those for things like buying a membership to ClustrMaps.

    The USDA’s power is in their secrecy and miss-information. Most people still don’t even know about NAIS. More important than money is spreading the word - If you tell ten people and they each tell ten people…

    Whew, that was a long response - Sorry for the wordiness. You asked at an opportune time as I got a lecture last night kind of on this topic… -WJ]

    Comment anna — August 21, 2006 @ 10:38 am

  10. oh! i meant to say those were really great questions and i for one wish they usda would give us real answers. if they wont i cant believe them for anything. i hope hammersmid reads this post or mobly and gets embarrassed and answers these questions!

    Comment anna — August 21, 2006 @ 10:40 am

  11. I sent in the list of questions to the Alaskan Senators, this is how I started my email to them and then listed all of the Questions. I suggest everyone hit up there Senators with the same.

    Questions were posed to Neil E. Hammerschmidt, USDA Animal ID Coordinator that have yet to be answered to we the people. SInce Mr. Hammerschmidt has failed to answer our questions on the National Animal Identification System, I am directing them to you. We the people are demanding truthfull answers. Beaware that ALL THESE QUESTIONS HAVE BEEN GENERATED PER THE USDA NATIONAL ANIMAL IDENTIFICATION SYSTEMS (NAIS) DRAFT STRATEGIC PLAN 2005 TO 2009 AND THE USDA NATIONAL ANIMAL IDENTIFICATION SYSTEM (NAIS) DRAFT PROGRAM STANDARDS APRIL 25, 2005.

    Questions were asked by Mr Jefferies of NONAIS.org

    Because this program will affect me and many ALASKANS, these questions need to be answered.

    Comment Gisela — August 21, 2006 @ 11:48 am

  12. Walter: I am pleased that you posted the unanswered questions for all to see. As I reported to you and your readers previously, I also approached Dore Mobley following the July 17 Berks PA meeting, and asked her why she or Hammerschmidt had never answered your questions. Her response to me was exactly as she responded to Dr. Mary Zanoni. (see your above article text).

    She told me then, and I reported to you promptly that, “the answers were still being addressed, but she expected that they would be ready soon”.

    She also referred me to the “Guide for Small Scale or Non-Commercial Producers” document which they were handing out that evening. (The implication being that many of your questions were addressed within that document).

    Also please note that no less than 75 per cent of your questions were asked in one form or another that very evening of Dr. John Weimars and Neil Hammerschmidt while they took questions from the floor. They answered nearly (if not) all of them with “we don’t know” or “we are still working on that”. The eighty persons in attendance that evening went away totally disatisfied with the lack of answers to straightforward questions by these two highly placed USDA officials.

    The USDA will not answer these questions. They also “thumbed their noses” at a member of the House Ag committee who also asked for clarification of many of the same issues. USDA sent him a response which basically said, “see the Guide for Small Scale and Non-Commercial Producers” document.

    The USDA is stalling the answers until the premise id stage of the NAIS is farther along the path towards state by state compliance. As long as states such as PA are willing to pass legislation which will make premise registration mandatory, the USDA need only sit back and maintain their very vague outline of the finished product.

    [Thanks, Neil! I was pretty sure someone else besides Mary Zanoni had confirmed this at the Berks, PA meeting with Mobley or Hammerschmidt but I couldn’t find the email. Now that I know it was you I found it of course. One more proof that they are playing around while avoiding actually answering the questions. I have a FOIA request already in to the USDA, which they are being horribly slow with. We’ll see what comes of that. -WJ]

    Comment Neil W. — August 21, 2006 @ 1:50 pm

  13. I sure hope I’m wrong on this but the way I see it they will do whatever they want. I have wondered what I will do if anyone comes onto my property in the future and tells me they are taking my livestock. I know my Great Pyrenees will not be a happy boy if anyone lays a hand on his girls(Goats). He will be doing his job and if he’s killed for doing it at his home what rights will I have to protect my animals? This country is becoming to sound more and more like Hitler’s Germany. I won’t want to live in this country if my freedom to have my animals is taken away.

    Comment Suzy Minck — August 21, 2006 @ 2:46 pm

  14. Great stuff Walter!

    Is it any wonder they haven’t answered you? You’ve shown them every weakness in their plan and they’re too busy trying to plug the leaky dike before the damn bursts and washes the NAIS out to sea with the rest of the turds.

    In an open forum my district representative indicated that the 2007 Farm Bill was short on cash. As NAIS has now been tied to that as a way to keep it afloat financially his view was that the whole thing could collapse, or at least become a shadow of itself. Nevertheless, he did not want to comment on specifics and pushed further questions off on his flunkies. My guess as Secretary of Ag for our state, he doesn’t know much, and probably hasn’t even read the NAIS drafts. He was more concearned about his appearance on the Colbert Report.

    I also heard a state vet speak about NAIS. He too said our states’ resources are stretched so thin he doubts any sort of enforcement could happen and that the plan could self-implode. Yet, I did catch him out in a few lies, and pointed them out to him. Sure enough he hemmed and hawed, and then trooped out terrorist attack, right on cue.

    It’s like these government people go to some sort of militant civil service training camp and all get the same indoctrination–mention Foot & Mouth in the UK. Say how great NAIS is. If resistance is encountered terrorize with threats of biological attack.
    Pathetic. His points could all be refuted and one fellow had him running around in circles over “co-mingling”. He, of course, cut the meeting short as soon as he broke into a sweat.

    Comment Podchef — August 21, 2006 @ 3:19 pm

  15. (((OOPS! Put this comment in the wrong place! It should be following this article on unanswered questions!)))

    C’mon Walt, can’t you figure out why these questions can’t/aren’t being answered? THE QUESTIONS ARE JUST TOO HARD FOR THEM TO UNDERSTAND!!! The USDA can’t think to begin with, otherwise it would not have come up with such a boondoggle system as NAIS. The questions you pose are beyond their scope of comprehension.
    Being a teacher, I can recognize when a student turns in orginal work and when it is copied. NAIS is an obvious copy of government programs from communist/socialist/fascist regimes. (Too bad there is not a copyright so some foreign country could sue the USDA for infringement.)
    So Johanns (and the USDA minions) get an F for lousy planning, and F for lack of originality, and F for getting the assigment in late (not answering Walt’s questions) and F because they can’t even begin to form answers to the simplest of questions mainly because they have not thought NAIS through.
    (F of course stands for “fail” but because of the stress from fighting this program, some people might think the F stands for another 4 letter word. That is o.k. with me!)

    Comment SUSAN — August 21, 2006 @ 3:43 pm

  16. How sad that the USDA still does not have any answers to our questions. These are the same questions since the start of this asisnane program. They answered Pa people with the same evasive junk we heard at the local meetings. What a lot of money the government must save by hiring incompetant leaders. The small producers guide keeps being handed out, edit it and hand it back.

    Comment George — August 21, 2006 @ 8:13 pm

  17. Walter, I have some thoughts about advertising on nonais.org. Most of us reading this site want to know who we should do business with and who we want to stay away from, who we want to vote for and who we want to vote out. How about ads from suppliers and politicians who want our business and vote and are anti nais. Hopefully there are a number. I would go out of my way to buy from those who are on our side instead of someone looking to make a buck from NAIS or those who are major players pushing through NAIS.
    I went on a cattle site lately that had an article on NAIS and wondered if the advertisers on the site were pro or anti nais. Maybe a note at the top saying you are allowing ads from those who are on our side and who we should support. I don’t know why anyone would find this would taint the purity. I, for one, would welcome it.

    Comment Mary Beth — August 21, 2006 @ 8:23 pm

  18. Excellent questions, Walter. The USDA won’t and can’t answer these questions.

    1. They don’t know themselves because the NIAA hasn’t told them yet.

    2. If they did know the answers, and were candid, they would have a total revolt on their hands. Classic Potamac Two-step.

    I am printing your question to send to my states representatives and newspapers.
    Thank you for all your hard work.

    Comment Elaine — August 21, 2006 @ 8:40 pm

  19. that’s right walter,bury them in
    paperwork..what about the freedom of information act?I thought they
    were required to answer in 3 days
    or don’t lies count as information? By now we could have
    started our own USDA and contracted out our bird bands
    and branding irons..you know ..
    you need more imagination..
    I hate to say it,but it’s true….
    nit-picking is just what they want you to do…when we know the
    whole thing is a scandal and we
    should just be exposing it by
    following the money….everytime
    we comment ,they just get more
    ammunition. It’s still just a
    DRAFT,,your questions should just
    be about how much money they have
    spent and what for????That
    could fall under the freedom of
    information act couldn’t it?
    The reason they haven’t answered your questions is
    because they don’t have the
    answers..It’s still just a
    DRAFT..so they can’t be held
    responsible.They’re just
    making it up as they go along
    the way this administration
    does everything else..we should
    be organizing our health system
    rules and regulations and get
    it into place before 2008.we
    could do it. I name Walter as
    secretary of agriculture….
    we’ll have our own books.let
    them have theirs..our animals
    can all have first and last
    names(middle names optional)
    They already know who they are
    so they won’t need tags..the good old branding iron only
    stings for a minute and lasts
    a lifetime…for cowboys who
    still dream of the old west..
    our no acronym systemless system will
    leave all the tracking to
    God ..no tracebacks allowed…
    animals will be allowed to live
    and die naturally
    our inspectors will
    wear jeans and no white
    trucks allowed(any color but white) and they can only come in if invited..all trespassers
    will be shot and nailed up on
    the woodshed
    after fair warning…..
    this sounds like a joke,but it’s the only way to win..
    going one better than NAIS
    keep the enemy always in view
    but spending our energy creating a better world and
    proving it to people that there
    is a better way than depopulating farmers..isn’t that what we were doing anyway
    before the NAIS came along and
    changed our lives forever? Well, we better go back to
    living our lives before we
    forget how to…if we have one
    year of freedom left..let’s
    make it count…
    Walter..we are making bumper
    stickers.I lost your address
    and email..I’ll send you some
    or should we just send you a link?? anyway please give me
    your address so I can mail you
    one. sidsargent@pgtc.com
    thanks for all the good work

    [Sid, I would love to see some. My mailing address is in a separate email. On the FOIA, I have submitted one and they are dragging their feet. -WJ]

    Comment sid sargent — August 21, 2006 @ 9:44 pm

  20. I would vote against putting ads on this site for the simple reason that there’s already so much information here to slog through. (I’m not complaining about the information! It’s very nice to have it all laid out so I have a chance of keeping up.)

    Comment ranch101 — August 22, 2006 @ 12:03 am

  21. Walter, Welcome to the wonderful world of stonewalling. This just happened to me with my FOIA request. WSDA thought I would be impressed with a 10 inch stack of paper, most of which was duplicates of three peoples correspondence (including mine). Impressed-not! They best be gettin those docs ready though, because they soon will be getting a knock on their door, and it won’t be in October. We aren’t doing the waiting game any longer. We are demanding the answers promised. The WSDA/USDA will answer to THE PEOPLE. What date did they give you to respond to your FOIA? You can use my ’sources’ and I will pick up the tab. They have 20 days to respond. BTW-This stonewalling is not just with NAIS but with other new and exciting Constitution-threatening programs which are being implemented. We are just one of many. I wonder if this strategy of stonewalling is their definition of being ‘transparent’. It appears as though our representation feels they are too lofty to answer or be responsible to THE PEOPLE. This makes me think of Marie Antoinette…”let them eat cake”. Or there is the in your face Stalin approach. He liquidated 22 million farms and killing 80 million farmers through starvation/ murder when they tried to protest. Not on my watch. When it comes to your family… do you do you like to eat? Or comply, just so that you can show animals? Ummm…

    Comment Celeste — August 22, 2006 @ 9:27 am

  22. Hello:)

    Without naming names at this point, I would like to specificly broach the subject of who not to buy from. And, how to determine who not to buy from.

    This came to mind because I am given to understand my source for grains, which I gave preference to because it is locally owned(Vermont Co) family operation, is said to support NAIS, while my local distributor holds no position as yet(:).

    I expect this is going to be difficult to tackle given the breadth of the big suppliers involved in NAIS but! I would argue that economic boycott is a tool No NAISers must utilize. Why is simple: one major element of this system is arguably about creating, or rather, exponentually expanding a market(initially), so it’s about economics(Stakeholders via the USDA are buying favor with state Ag Dept’s who utilize tax collections to push this system).

    Put another way, the opposition holds most of the cards. In order to win this battle, it seems to me we need to make this as personal an issue as possible all along the supply stream. The next step up the chain is the store owners we purchase from, but more important, who their suppliers are.

    I would argue we needn’t alienate our local feed store owner(though we may), if we explain our position(in writing), and why we can no longer purchase specific products from naughty Stakeholders even though we adore them personally(if this is even possible). I would suggest we discover the extent of the branding of the Stakeholders we wish to boycott beforehand because we may discover that we have no acceptable local sources to resort to. Y’know?~) (Perhaps too, something along the line of local Granges need to be resusitated in earnest.)

    Anyhow, what do y’all think?

    respects, Wm
    (:

    ps I love your government black hole quote Walter, lol, how true.

    Comment Mr Dirty Nails — August 22, 2006 @ 12:30 pm

  23. Nice List Nominee:)

    Hank Gilbert, Texas Ag Dept candidate.

    http://hankgilbert.com/animalid.htm

    I wish Vermont had a candidate like this. Browse the ON THE ISSUES link, this fella seems very straight forward. What’s Texan’s think?

    respects, Wm

    Comment Mr Dirty Nails — August 22, 2006 @ 12:35 pm

  24. Downsize the USDA

    Stop buying food from feedlots and factories.

    Let them all find real jobs that require sweat.

    This is what it is coming to: sustainable vs. industrial agriculture.

    Industrial feeds on ignorance, fear and terror. Sustainable feeds.

    Comment California — August 22, 2006 @ 1:46 pm

  25. Regarding ads on this site. If running ads from anti-nais companies will help support this site, please do so. The Small Farmers Journal edits their ads and it is a big help when you need to purchase anything, helps you vote with your wallet.

    Comment George — August 22, 2006 @ 4:24 pm

  26. Yes, Hank Gilbert seems to be on the up and up. I heard him speak at the Brady meeting this month. He doesn’t kitten-foot around the issues, and I appreciate that. I am sick to death of politicians carefully-crafted comments and big, flashy smiles. My husband and I are definitely supporting him. Thanks, Dirty Nails, for spotting this info on his webpage. The handout he had the night I met him did not address NAIS, but his comments sure did. If elected, I believe we can count on him to work to stop NAIS.

    Comment Texas Goat Gal — August 22, 2006 @ 4:48 pm

  27. Thanks, Walter, for all your excellent work. I have just recently learned about this whole issue and this is the first time logging on to your site. I will send this URL in an email to all my friends, as well as to my state and federal representatives. The more people we can get to contact our elected officials, the better!

    Also, ads on this site would be fine. They could be very simple, one- or two-line entries like the ones on the side bars you already have. Another idea is to ask for donations in the form of a “10-cent per day challenge,” (which I saw on www.survivalblog.com) in which people pay only 10 cents per day for a year (usually payable in one lump sum through paypal or by check, or by anonymous cash, for that matter). Neither of these means of allowing the site to pay for itself would be inappropriate or intrusive.

    Comment Greg Munger — August 22, 2006 @ 5:50 pm

  28. Wow, masterpiece of a letter Walter! Thanks! You put it all together.

    Comment Darla Cox — August 22, 2006 @ 11:25 pm

  29. Reminds me of the IRS. No answers to questions and if you do get one it wont make any sense.

    Comment Larry Wiley — August 23, 2006 @ 11:16 am

  30. Walter, today was the day I went to the fair ,talked to a lot of folks,I started in barn #1 and talked to every person showing an animal,went from barn to barn a dozen or so then to the side sheds,and then out on the fairway,had a few folks tell me they were not interested and one who was showing told me I was going to screw up the safety of livestock as well as cause the farmers to have trouble with the govt,and make it hard for her to sell cattle (not sure where she was coming from, but I didn’t have time to waste on her,so I went on.Talked to several hundred folks most of whom did not know about NAIS, but who were very interested,most all of them said they would look into this mess,I directed people toward this site and liberty ark for more info,it almost seems strange that so many folks are not aware of what is going on around them,especially the ones who should, we still have a lot of educating to do,but as more and more find out what is going on it should help. Thanks.

    [Excellent job! Working the fairs is a great idea. -WJ]

    Comment LEE — August 23, 2006 @ 7:48 pm

  31. This is a scary situation and I am so glad to hear there are people fighting it. I have a couple of horses and donkeys, I don’t breed, I don’t sell, I ride on my own property at this point. Why should I have to register my premises? Yet a couple of weeks ago I got a letter stating that I need to fill out the enclosed form for a premises ID. How did they even know I had bought the animals? This invasion of my privacy really makes me angry.
    Keep up the fight and THANKS!

    Comment Deb — August 28, 2006 @ 5:34 pm

  32. Does that mean you still haven’t received any formal response from your well written request as of October 22? As of this date has a replacement been designated as the person that will respond, you know when they uh finally get around to it ? I’m curious. I left Dr. Weimers a telephone message a week or so ago and sent him a fax illucidating my thoughts on his needing to take a remedial Civics class among other things but apparently he’s too busy “walking the streets and checking every yard” to get back to me. I’m not sure if there is any media that we can enlist on this one, but it seems like in Walter’s case 6 months to get a response is
    another very good indication of why we don’t need NAIS…Forwarding this to an investigative reporter might be a good thing.
    Somebody also mentioned in the preceding comments that the USDA is hoping to get under the Homeland Security umbrella. Ouch ! Does that mean my “terrorists chickens” will be getting reinforcements from my neighbor’s chickens up the road and soon my little barn yard will be engulfed in sectarian violence? You know Barred Rocks aligning with Rhode Island Reds and vying for control against Cornish Meat Birds ? Hmmm… just wondering.

    Comment Bob Constantine — October 22, 2006 @ 2:24 pm

  33. Regarding #11 I received a response from one Senator, Lisa Murkowski who in turn sent my questions to the USDA, I then wrote her back and this is how I responded.
    Dear Senators, I sent in a list of questions concerning the NAIS. My hope was that you as our Senators of ALASKA would answer them, instead you forwarded them to the USDA. I feel that if you could not answer them, then how can you really see what we the livestock owners will be going through. I am very disapointed in this. The USDA is not answering OUR QUESTIONS truthfully, in other words the use of clever wording is being used not to mention the definitions of words are changing to confuse the unsupecting. This program will do away with our right to privacy, our right to legally own our personal property by a form of taxation, and the finacial burden alone will do away with most peoples livestock, including mine. This program will have a downward spiral affect which will effect Alaska business’s and outside businesse’s.

    The Alaska State Constitution states (link)

    § 1. Inherent Rights

    This constitution is dedicated to the principles that all persons have a natural right to life, liberty, the pursuit of happiness, and the enjoyment of the rewards of their own industry; that all persons are equal and entitled to equal rights, opportunities, and protection under the law; and that all persons have corresponding obligations to the people and to the State.

    § 14. Searches and Seizures

    The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses and other property, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated. No warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.

    § 22. Right of Privacy

    The right of the people to privacy is recognized and shall not be infringed. The legislature shall implement this section. [Amended 1972]

    The USDA per the Draft Plan will make it illegal to own livestock without a premise Id, chipping/tagging our animals and reporting of the movement by enforcement. You also will not be able to buy or sell with out your ID. This is coercion ( link)

    The USDA Draft Strategic Plan and the USDA Draft Program Standards are the only documents to refer to. No other documents supersedes these.

    As of today 09-24-06 right now in Congress they are dicussing the right to security in your home and papers

    * the right to be free from unreasonable searches

    * the safety net of judicial warrant requirements

    * the right to a trial by a jury of your peers in a system of due process

    * reasonable bail and recourse for false arrest

    * protection from cruel and unusual punishment

    The power to stop this lies in your hands. Thank you Senators for your time.

    Senators Ted Stevens , Lisa Murkowski and Don Young all need to be added to the Naught list. I am not getting any answers from them. I sent my response in on 9-25-06

    Comment Gisela — October 23, 2006 @ 2:54 pm

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