Comments on: Fighting Unreasonable Laws http://NoNAIS.org/2007/10/20/fightning-unreasonable-laws/ Protect our traditional rights to farm Thu, 17 May 2012 04:11:43 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.0.2 by: nick http://NoNAIS.org/2007/10/20/fightning-unreasonable-laws/#comment-606160 Fri, 26 Oct 2007 03:55:02 +0000 http://NoNAIS.org/2007/10/20/fightning-unreasonable-laws/#comment-606160 thank you Phantom. some times i wonder if we are really interested in stopping this thing (nais). to stop it it must be stopped in the cattle first and the rest will follow.to get it stopped in the cattle we must join a cattle group that is not afraid. it make no differance whether you own cattle or some other species, to beat the thing we must help these groups that are fighting for you and the things that you believe in!!!!. thank you Phantom. some times i wonder if we are really interested in stopping this thing (nais). to stop it it must be stopped in the cattle first and the rest will follow.to get it stopped in the cattle we must join a cattle group that is not afraid. it make no differance whether you own cattle or some other species, to beat the thing we must help these groups that are fighting for you and the things that you believe in!!!!.

]]> by: The Phantom http://NoNAIS.org/2007/10/20/fightning-unreasonable-laws/#comment-603537 Thu, 25 Oct 2007 00:25:44 +0000 http://NoNAIS.org/2007/10/20/fightning-unreasonable-laws/#comment-603537 I am surprised that there have not been any comments on Nicks post; Everyone needs to read the letter that www.r-calfusa.com sent to Chairman Harkin of the Senate Ag Com on Oct. 23rd, asking for a moratorium to be placed on anymore premise registrations with nais, and answers to legal questions on this program; investigation into the tactics being used for premise registering, and an audit, etc. It would be great if FARFA, VICFA, and others would request the same thing...it is time to get these questions legal answers.As Nick states: go to r-calf, hit on animal ID and there is the 2 page letter by Dr. Thornsberry to Harkin....asking the hard questions. I am surprised that there have not been any comments on Nicks post; Everyone needs to read the letter that www.r-calfusa.com sent to Chairman Harkin of the Senate Ag Com on Oct. 23rd, asking for a moratorium to be placed on anymore premise registrations with nais, and answers to legal questions on this program; investigation into the tactics being used for premise registering, and an audit, etc. It would be great if FARFA, VICFA, and others would request the same thing…it is time to get these questions legal answers.As Nick states: go to r-calf, hit on animal ID and there is the 2 page letter by Dr. Thornsberry to Harkin….asking the hard questions.

]]> by: nick http://NoNAIS.org/2007/10/20/fightning-unreasonable-laws/#comment-601242 Wed, 24 Oct 2007 03:27:01 +0000 http://NoNAIS.org/2007/10/20/fightning-unreasonable-laws/#comment-601242 texas goat gal and all of you unbelievers in R-CALF. go to www.r-calfusa.com , punch animal identification and read the lettler sent to the usda. after reading pull out your checkbook and join them in this fight.get your brother,sister, mother and dad, friends and even people you dont like to join also. now is the time. texas goat gal and all of you unbelievers in R-CALF. go to www.r-calfusa.com , punch animal identification and read the lettler sent to the usda. after reading pull out your checkbook and join them in this fight.get your brother,sister, mother and dad, friends and even people you dont like to join also. now is the time.

]]> by: Bob Constantine http://NoNAIS.org/2007/10/20/fightning-unreasonable-laws/#comment-596647 Mon, 22 Oct 2007 12:25:45 +0000 http://NoNAIS.org/2007/10/20/fightning-unreasonable-laws/#comment-596647 Doreen you're not trying to say the USDA can't inspect a chicken carcass whizzing by at warp speed on an assembly line are you? :) Maybe they should change the label to "USDA INFECTED"? Might be more appropriate. Doreen you’re not trying to say the USDA can’t inspect a chicken carcass whizzing by at warp speed on an assembly line are you? :)
Maybe they should change the label to “USDA INFECTED”?
Might be more appropriate.

]]> by: JJenseen http://NoNAIS.org/2007/10/20/fightning-unreasonable-laws/#comment-594676 Sun, 21 Oct 2007 21:53:46 +0000 http://NoNAIS.org/2007/10/20/fightning-unreasonable-laws/#comment-594676 Congratulations on passing the 300,000 visitor mark! Congratulations on passing the 300,000 visitor mark!

]]> by: Doreen http://NoNAIS.org/2007/10/20/fightning-unreasonable-laws/#comment-593730 Sun, 21 Oct 2007 12:12:20 +0000 http://NoNAIS.org/2007/10/20/fightning-unreasonable-laws/#comment-593730 In my estimation, just as when there is harm you have the possibility of suit, when there is no harm you have no truthful law-breaking....just another victimless crime due to tremendous regulattion. What the Double H did may not be the best way to fight, but it certainly sheds a bright light on what is happening. Perhaps the thing to do is sue the USDA over their "USDA inspected" label as they aren't even inspecting the meat that they are stamping....Hmm. :) In my estimation, just as when there is harm you have the possibility of suit, when there is no harm you have no truthful law-breaking….just another victimless crime due to tremendous regulattion.

What the Double H did may not be the best way to fight, but it certainly sheds a bright light on what is happening.

Perhaps the thing to do is sue the USDA over their “USDA inspected” label as they aren’t even inspecting the meat that they are stamping….Hmm. :)

]]> by: Bob Constantine http://NoNAIS.org/2007/10/20/fightning-unreasonable-laws/#comment-591780 Sat, 20 Oct 2007 22:13:15 +0000 http://NoNAIS.org/2007/10/20/fightning-unreasonable-laws/#comment-591780 I'm all for "working through the normal channels" etc. to overturn NAIS and other stupid laws, regulations, edicts etc. Hate to pose this question but what if despite all the work done by many of us we are unsuccessful? What if it get's stuck up our butts and we're told sorry game over ? a) give up owning critters b) hide your animals c) meekly comply d) none of the above Life is like a big multiple choice quiz isn't it?... "Teacher" says the answer is "c" ....What will each of us say the answer is? So yes in the meantime let's keep up the good fight, but you may want to think of the way each of you will ultimately respond should a pop quiz be thrown your way. ...study hard! I’m all for “working through the normal channels” etc. to overturn NAIS and other stupid laws, regulations, edicts etc.

Hate to pose this question but what if despite all the work done by many of us we are unsuccessful? What if it get’s stuck up our butts and we’re told sorry game over ?

a) give up owning critters
b) hide your animals
c) meekly comply
d) none of the above

Life is like a big multiple choice quiz isn’t it?…
“Teacher” says the answer is “c” ….What will each of us say the answer is?

So yes in the meantime let’s keep up the good fight, but you may want to think of the
way each of you will ultimately
respond should a pop quiz be thrown your way. …study hard!

]]> by: Dan Ecklund, MD http://NoNAIS.org/2007/10/20/fightning-unreasonable-laws/#comment-591128 Sat, 20 Oct 2007 15:54:26 +0000 http://NoNAIS.org/2007/10/20/fightning-unreasonable-laws/#comment-591128 Please, PLEASE, it is time to stop knuckling under to these strong-arm tactics and fight back! There is absolutely nothing in the US Constitution which allows this kind of action against farmers. According to the Constitution, Amendment X, if an action is not explicitly allowed by the Constitution, it is prohibited. This is exactly the kind of case that can be easily won, usually before court, by turning the court back into a constitutional, Article III court. This organization, <a href="http://www.citizensoftheamericanconstitution.org/homepage.htm">link</a>, has won over 300 cases by using this technique, with only a handful of losses. And, you can do it yourself, without a lawyer! Most of these cases are dismissed before court, as the judges do not want their unconstitutional actions pointed out in the media. Most of the techniques can be learned by listening to the audio files on the above website. There IS a way to fight back. They just don’t want us to know about it! Dan Ecklund, MD Please, PLEASE, it is time to stop knuckling under to these strong-arm tactics and fight back! There is absolutely nothing in the US Constitution which allows this kind of action against farmers. According to the Constitution, Amendment X, if an action is not explicitly allowed by the Constitution, it is prohibited.
This is exactly the kind of case that can be easily won, usually before court, by turning the court back into a constitutional, Article III court. This organization, link, has won over 300 cases by using this technique, with only a handful of losses. And, you can do it yourself, without a lawyer! Most of these cases are dismissed before court, as the judges do not want their unconstitutional actions pointed out in the media. Most of the techniques can be learned by listening to the audio files on the above website.
There IS a way to fight back. They just don’t want us to know about it!
Dan Ecklund, MD

]]> by: Afella in VT http://NoNAIS.org/2007/10/20/fightning-unreasonable-laws/#comment-591077 Sat, 20 Oct 2007 15:16:38 +0000 http://NoNAIS.org/2007/10/20/fightning-unreasonable-laws/#comment-591077 That was a good article to read. I have been following the Neiwendorp, Nolt and Double H cases closely. This article is the most in depth description of the Double H case that I have seen. I agree with the sentiment that current regulation is excluding small producers and consumer choice. But I disagree with the Double H approach. I feel strongly that if you don't agree with a law (or even a regulation), the only option is work to overturn it. Breaking the law without making it an act of civil disobedience (by atleast annnouncing it) makes it just a criminal act for personal convience / gain. Selling products as certified organic that are not is simply misleading the consumer in order to gain a sale, no better than Dairy farmers in VT employing illegal immigrants to gain a production cost advantage over law abiding producers. This seperates the Double H and the Neiwendorp cases. Neiwendorp took a stand against regulation by announcing to the powers that be why and how he was doing it and inviting the public to witness and join his protest. By using the Doube H business model, consumers are decieved, the producer is accurately labeled as a criminal, the legitimate efforts to change the law are linked to the criminal act and the law is still in place. Actions like this make it harder to change the law and move society forward. I feel strongly that Civilized Society is an all or nothing proposition. If I want the benefits of living in an ordered society that is governed by the rule of law, I can't pick and choose the laws I am going to follow. I have to take part in the law making process. The alternative is having our friends and neighbors also choosing not to follow laws they find inconvenient that might be important to us. Just thinking in VT That was a good article to read. I have been following the Neiwendorp, Nolt and Double H cases closely. This article is the most in depth description of the Double H case that I have seen.

I agree with the sentiment that current regulation is excluding small producers and consumer choice. But I disagree with the Double H approach. I feel strongly that if you don’t agree with a law (or even a regulation), the only option is work to overturn it. Breaking the law without making it an act of civil disobedience (by atleast annnouncing it) makes it just a criminal act for personal convience / gain. Selling products as certified organic that are not is simply misleading the consumer in order to gain a sale, no better than Dairy farmers in VT employing illegal immigrants to gain a production cost advantage over law abiding producers.

This seperates the Double H and the Neiwendorp cases. Neiwendorp took a stand against regulation by announcing to the powers that be why and how he was doing it and inviting the public to witness and join his protest.

By using the Doube H business model, consumers are decieved, the producer is accurately labeled as a criminal, the legitimate efforts to change the law are linked to the criminal act and the law is still in place. Actions like this make it harder to change the law and move society forward.

I feel strongly that Civilized Society is an all or nothing proposition. If I want the benefits of living in an ordered society that is governed by the rule of law, I can’t pick and choose the laws I am going to follow. I have to take part in the law making process. The alternative is having our friends and neighbors also choosing not to follow laws they find inconvenient that might be important to us.

Just thinking in VT

]]> by: carlene http://NoNAIS.org/2007/10/20/fightning-unreasonable-laws/#comment-590818 Sat, 20 Oct 2007 12:19:24 +0000 http://NoNAIS.org/2007/10/20/fightning-unreasonable-laws/#comment-590818 I believe that many other small farmers like us (my husband and I) are so upset with all the government's "control issues" that they don't move.. I do e-mail my representatives often but that is all I do. Being busy on the farm is one excuse. I for one would surely be upset if my state (NH) tried to tell me that I could not slaughter and eat my own meat. What is this world coming to? Are they then going to outlaw deer hunting (which would cause an over run of deer and then all the deer would die off from disease and starvation?) People these days are not thinking! I believe that many other small farmers like us (my husband and I)
are so upset with all the government’s “control issues” that they don’t move.. I do e-mail my representatives often but that is all I do. Being busy on the farm is one excuse. I for one would surely be upset if my state (NH) tried to tell me that I could not slaughter and eat my own meat. What is this world coming to? Are they then going to outlaw deer hunting (which would cause an over run of deer and then all the deer would die off from disease and starvation?) People these days are not thinking!

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