I’ve been getting a lot of questions from people asking if they are required to respond to government surveys such as the “2006 Agricultural Identification Survey” that people have been getting in the mail.
I called the USDA to ask but was on hold for half of eternity and then a recording came on saying that they had just sent out the surveys and were experiencing a larger than usual call volume, please call back in a few days.
I’ve not gotten a copy myself so I can’t read it but several people have said that the questionnaire cited compliance requirements per “Title 7, US Code”. Looking through the USDA files on the web I found this for the past survey from 2002 in a USDA press release which states:
Responses to this survey and the 2002 Census of Agriculture are mandatory under Title 7, U. S. Code, which also assures the information provided is confidential and will not be provided to any individual or organization.
-USDA 2002 PR
So I dug around the legal code for the United States to see what that was all about. Title 7 refers to agriculture. Looking through it I found this:
TITLE 7 > CHAPTER 63 > § 3003
The Secretary shall provide, through the Economic Research Service of the United States Department of Agriculture, or whatever agency or agencies the Secretary considers appropriate, an annual survey of existing methods of direct marketing from farmers to consumers in each State.
-Cornell Law
Now I’m not a lawyer but nowhere there do I see anything about required compliance by citizens. There is no use of the word mandatory as applied to you and I. It merely states that the Secretary shall do something. It doesn’t say that farmers or anyone else must comply. The government does like to come on hard and strong, making it sound like you must do something when it is not required so who knows if this is one of those cases or not. The fact that their recent documents don’t claim it is mandatory suggests to me it is not required.
I also found this interesting tidbit in their files:
Mandatory Reporting
Lee Schrader, Chair of the Mandatory Reporting Subcommittee, presented a brief Subcommittee report in which he stressed that NASS should have compelling reasons before considering mandatory reporting. An example of this would be the direct use of data for making policy. NASS should make every effort to improve data quality through methodology and data verification before seeking mandatory reporting authority.
:
The Committee recommends that compelling reasons must exist to justify the use of mandatory reporting on NASS business surveys. The issue needs to be considered on an individual survey basis when there are both NASS and industry concerns with specific reporting or data quality situations. Improving data collection methodology and communication with respondents should be the first approach to dealing with these concerns.
-
So apparently even people within the USDA don’t think it is a good idea to be flinging the term mandatory all over the place. I’m not a lawyer and I’m certainly not about to give out legal advice, free or otherwise. All I can tell you is what I see in print in Title 7 which they cited. That says nothing about it being mandatory. You make your choices from there.
I’ve written about this once before (check out: 2006 Agriculture ID Survey) and the people at the National Agriculture Statistics Service (NASS) assured me when I called them that filling out the survey will not sign you up for NAIS and that they have nothing to do with NAIS. Frankly, the USDA could have picked a better acronym to not confuse NAIS with NASS.
Should you fill out the survey? Maybe. By giving them feedback you may be able to change the policies and the course of human history. Currently our government is by big business, for big business. If you keep quiet they’ll keep ignoring you. Over this past year a lot of small farmers and homesteaders did speak up about NAIS and the USDA did back down, at least on the face of it, to a large degree. You can make a difference. Let them know what you think on the 2006 Ag Survey and on the USDA’s NAIS Comments page. At the same time always be sure to write your representatives at both the state and federal levels as appropriate. See the Contacts section in the upper right column.
If you don’t speak up, they won’t hear you.
Update: Goatman found Title 7, Ch 55 § 2204g that says they can’t fine you more than $100 for refusing to answer questions.
Once again, Walter saves the day!
People on a horse-lovers group were posting that they had received the NASS survey and when I told them they didn’t have to respond to it they told me the envelope said “Your response is required by law” which of course freaked them out just like it would freak me out.
I was just doing my regular morning check of Nonais and I saw your post, Walter. Thanks for your research. You are just awesome! And you saved me from having to do the research.
I’ve pointed the people in the horse group here .
Comment Henwhisperer — January 10, 2007 @ 8:18 am
thank you walter. this is very interesting.
Comment anna — January 10, 2007 @ 8:41 am
As stated previously, we along with others in our area received this ag survey from USDA a few years ago. The same language was used in regard to ‘compliance’.
We ignored the survey. We were sent another and told we could be fined $100. We figured it was worth $100 not to give up all the personal & private information the government thinks it has a right to have.
We got a few nasty and demanding phone calls from the ‘toady’ land grant college about getting that census filled out and sent back. After my husband had a chat with the lady on the other end of the line informing her that we are NOT on any USDA programs and it NOT being the government’s business to demand compliance with their census taking we haven’t heard from them.
Our nearest neighbors didn’t send theirs in either and they are on some USDA programs.
It’s that voluntary/mandatory thing. Their testing us to see how much wool can be pulled over the farmer’s eyes.
Comment donna — January 10, 2007 @ 9:35 am
My husband is sending the survey with the following information provided:
Being that I do not ask for accept any USDA subsidies, anything that I produce on my homestead does not enter the main marketstream. I fail to see how this information is applicable or relevant.
Comment Susan Maricle — January 10, 2007 @ 11:54 am
Actually if the form has a valid OMB number (which the USDA-NASS) has their are penalties for not filling it out. Google OMB enforcement. The survey says the information is confidential but the accompanying letter states the information will be on a website and published. If you do fill out the survey get a person to to personally sign their signature ensuring the information confidentiality. Also demand the law by which they are collecting this informatyion. And of course, who owns that information once it is collected.
From the snowy trenches and on the road with good news soon :-)
Celeste
Comment Celeste — January 10, 2007 @ 12:20 pm
Bravo! Sounds like the whole income tax thing all over again…
Comment Sue Diederich — January 10, 2007 @ 1:16 pm
link
Here’s the link to the part of Title 7 that indicates what the penalties are for failing to answer or answering falsely.
I agree. It’s worth $100 fine to not tell them anything! We got two copies of the survey in last night’s mail.
Comment goatmom — January 10, 2007 @ 2:04 pm
Thanks Walter and Celeste
Comment LuAnn — January 10, 2007 @ 2:16 pm
OT-WE THE PEOPLE of the State of Washington proudly announce:
No NAIS legislation
(HB available tomorrow but the bill is in play)
Call your Reps and Senators and demand favorable support!
From the trenches,
Celeste
[Excellent, Celeste! I have not read it carefully yet, just a first quickie. How do we go about introducing this in our state? What are the ins and outs? -WalterJ]
Comment Celeste — January 10, 2007 @ 2:24 pm
How does one get on the USDA’s mailing list to receive a survey in the first place? Seems to me they already have you in a system somewhere! I have not received one and I wouldn’t mind keeping it that way.
Comment Melanie P — January 10, 2007 @ 2:27 pm
We’ve been trained to blindly fill out forms from birth.
As George Gordon says, don’t volunteer any information you wouldn’t give a Denny’s waitress.
I agree with #6. There is case history for only giving the number of residents in a household for the general census.
Be prepared to trade in your Federal Reserve notes for the Amero. USDA; Every move you make, every step you take, we’ll be watching you.
Comment Dan Frantz — January 10, 2007 @ 4:04 pm
In the State of MO they sent mass mailings of prem id ‘invitations’ out through a contract with the NASS. Since they do things just about the same everywhere, I assume that is the database accessed by every state doa. If you ever took money, participated in a program, answered a survey, filed taxes as a farm, you are in the databases being used to move forward with NAIS.
Comment doreen — January 10, 2007 @ 4:21 pm
I got one of these and called them and they answered immediately. While the first person didn’t have my answers, they had a supervisor call me back the next morning.
This survey, while being part of Title 7, is required by OMB (Office of Management and Budget) for calculating state-by-state agricultural incomes so they can budget support accordingly. It does not apply to anyone who is not in the agriculture business. That is, if your have livestock for your own use and you do not sell the livestock or the products of the livestock (eggs, milk, meat) to other people, but have these animals for your own use only, and you do not receive benefits by being parts of a federal program (e.g., designated conservation area, etc.), then YOU ARE NOT REQUIRED to fill in this form. They told me to write “Residental Property - No Ag” on the form and send it back (it is postpaid, so no cost to me to mail it). Upon receipt, they will remove you from their database.
Comment Rich Amber — January 10, 2007 @ 4:46 pm
I have been receiving such surveys for several years now. My response has been to immediately place them in the recycling bin. Usually I get a series of telephone messages but I ignore those too and eventually the bureaucrats give up.
Comment Ernie — January 10, 2007 @ 4:58 pm
I was told by a couple of people I have been working with and trying to educate about the NAIS that they recieved around 8 mailings of these things,each was used to make the fire,followed by a late night phone call in the one case,and getting the fella out of bed,he upon finding out it was USDA told them to go to Hell and never to dare call him again,and since then (a month and a half)he has had no problems,he is one of those fairly quiet guys and he got hot,has been asking me questions about NAIS,thank you USDA!I have never dealt with USDA or such and have never received one,I do however burn the census every decade,except one year I wrote none of your business on it,never heard anything from them,and that is supposed to be a serious thing,I won’t tell you what I did with the draft reg. form when I got them way back when,and I never heard from them either,so I don’t know for sure what the risk is ,but as some have said it s only a hundred bucks to help a beauracrat bust a blood vein :)
Comment LEE — January 10, 2007 @ 8:54 pm
Thank you so much, Rich (of comment #13), for finding out this information and letting us know.
And on a semi-related topic, why is the census considered a bad thing by some people? Is it just because it’s the government being nosey? Or is it something more than that? Call me naive and nerdy, but I think the demographic information it provides is quite interesting. I actually enjoyed filling out the form that came to our house back in 2000.
Comment Rachael — January 10, 2007 @ 10:18 pm
I also called yesterday to find out what the penalties were for non-compliance on the survey. I got a very tired-sounding lady who asked me to hold briefly and came back to say something to the effect that we just have to do it. She said she couldn’t find anything that told what the penalty was for not filling out the survey, but that we could just write on it that we object to it, and send it back. She did ask if I was a farmer, and I said yes. I got the impression that my call wasn’t the first of the day on this topic.
(Dang, Walter,that’s a hard question.)
Comment Cynthia — January 11, 2007 @ 6:35 am
“And on a semi-related topic, why is the census considered a bad thing by some people? Is it just because it’s the government being nosey? Or is it something more than that?”
The census is allowed by the Constitution only to ascertain how many people live in the area to assign the proper number of representattives. Anything beyond how many people and how many are of the age of majority is MISSION CREEP. Think of all the data that is being accumulated by surveys and census’ and all the bean counters employed by the Federal government to tally the data and come up with the questions, too. It’s a tremendous bureaucracy. The last census, I got the long form and it seemed like they were trying to case my house. Wanted to know what time I left for work, what kind of car I drove, when I returned and how far I drove to work. None of their business.
Then there is the Biblical issue, wherein David counted his people and the Lord took serious issue with it. There’s a lot more there, but this isn’t the place to go into it.
Comment doreen — January 11, 2007 @ 7:10 am
The census bureau has put a similar threat on their new “American Community Survey,” or ACS. I fought them for months, because it is obtrusive and offensive. I was threatened by a census worker, and only “won” because I got the threat on tape and sent a copy to the Secretary of Commerce. I got profuse apologies and a promise that they’d never bother me again.
(Everyone should be fighting ACS, by the way! Google it.)
Point is that they cannot accept bad publicity. You must do your best to keep your cool, but don’t answer their ridiculous questions and keep fighting. Write congress, write newspapers, tell your friends…the government bureaucracy is out of control.
Comment Bkeepr — January 11, 2007 @ 9:39 am
Many people have contacted us about a recent survey from the USDA/ NASS. With NAIS being implemented, any request by the USDA for people’s information understandably causes concern! As explained below, the two are not supposed to be linked. This alert provides what we have determined about this survey, based on current information. This is not legal advice. It is provided for your information only, please consult an attorney in your state if you have any legal questions.
Statute: The USDA is required by statute to conduct a census of agriculture every five years. It applies to anyone with a farm, defined as “any place that produced and sold, or normally would produce and sell, $1,000 or more of agricultural products during the census year.” (7 USC section 2204g and 71 Fed. Reg. 7004.)
Penalties: There are limited penalties for not complying. A person who “refuses or willfully neglects to answer a question” faces fines of up to $100 A person “who willfully gives an answer that is false to a question” faces fines of up to $500 (7 USC section 2204g(d)).
Use: The statute states that the information gathered “may not be used for any purpose other than the statistical purposes for which the information is supplied.” (7 USC Section 2204g(f)(3).) If the USDA complies with the statute, your information should not be placed into NAIS.
More Information: The regulations governing the National Agricultural Statistics Service branch of
the USDA can be found at link.
Again, this is not legal advice. It is merely information about the statutory authority for the census.
Comment Judith — January 11, 2007 @ 12:50 pm
Once we start down the road of “believing” every thing that comes from the mouth of rulers, we are sunk.
Once we start down the road “believing” that we must do what any agency of government tells us to do we are sunk.
Once we start “believing” that the (de facto) laws they pass are “just” we are sunk.
Once we start “believing” that we are free, we are sunk.
ooops too late….
Comment deb — January 11, 2007 @ 1:49 pm
Re: #20 Judith you are wrong. It isn’t a census. It’s a pre-census, a survey to supposedly cull out the names that are no longer “farming” or in agriculture.
I also found out that horse magazines sold (or is that soul’d?) their mail lists to NASS so people who wondered how they got your name, now you know. Who knows which other agriculture or livestock related magazines soul’d their lists to the USDA. I do believe that is illegal, but we can leave that for the lawyers among us to sort out.
If you don’t sell more than $1,000 worth of products per year, you don’t have to fill it in.
Sharon
Comment Henwhisperer — January 11, 2007 @ 3:35 pm
Ok… I had a question/comment…
How many of you are in similar situations:
I live on my families farm. I do not pay rent. My parents are “non-tenant landlords.” I manage the farm in return for rent.
Now, we are not huge by any stretch — only 3 bovine and 12 equine (2 are my roommates). We don’t own or rent the property. The equine aren’t even registered in my name (registered to a farm account with our breed registry).
Who is to do the NASS? My parents, the property owners? My roommate, the owner of two equine? Or me, the “farm manager?
Maybe I’ll just call USDA. LOL! What a mess.
Comment ellen — January 12, 2007 @ 7:47 am
Interesting to note in regard to the Decennial Census:
link
Just say NO to NAIS!
Just say NO to the NASS 2007 Census of Agriculture!
Comment RuralDreams — January 12, 2007 @ 11:11 am
Oops! Something was missing from my last post. Let’s try that again–here is the missing quote:
There are fines for non-response and for false response as well…failure to respond can result in a $100 fine; providing false answers is a more severe offense, and carries a $500 fine. Recent news reports, however, indicate that punishment for failure to respond is not usually enforced. The controlling section of the Code is 13 USC 221…Though there is a possible $100 fine for failing to file with the Census, the Bureau also notes that NO ONE HAS BEEN PENALIZED FOR FAILING TO FILE IN THE PAST. THE FINE IS MORE OF A PSYCHOLOGICAL REMINDER of the importance of the census than a source of income for the government.
link
Just say NO to NAIS!
Just say NO to the NASS 2007 Census of Agriculture!
Comment RuralDreams — January 12, 2007 @ 11:17 am
Thanks, Rural Dreams. It is my opinion that if the form is completed and returned OR the fine is paid, a person would be acknowledging that Big Government has the right/authority to impose compliance of a survey/census. During the last census, I never returned it, and when I was called by a local census worker, I told him that there were three people living at our house, and that the way I read the Constitution, that was all the info they were entitled to. He asked if he could come by and have me sign it, and I said “no”, if it needs signing, you can do it. The interesting thing is that we received two forms, one at the residential house we were living in at the time, and our land, where we were only coming 1-2 days a week. When I said I did not have confidence in the government to get the numbers correct, especially if I filled out the one left on the fencepost at our land, he said they would subtract the number of people I reported at our rural place, and not count that. That is so ridiculous to think that with over 250 million people, at that time, and a bumbling bureaucracy, they were going to carefully subtract every count where someone filled out two forms for their two properties. I never did anything about the form left on the fencepost, and never heard from them. By the way, we do not have two residences - it just took a while to sell our house in town.
Comment Texas Goat Gal — January 12, 2007 @ 12:25 pm
Hi Folks. This is my 2nd time trying to submit a comment. I’m not the most computer savvy person around.
I just want to thank everyone who responded to this issue. I, too, had looked up Title 7 US Code and had crumbled under the threat of a $100 fine. I can’t afford a fine, but it seems you are saying it’s a ‘no worries’ on that score. So now I feel emboldened to either 1) send my survey to the circular file or 2) return it after writing in red marker ‘None of your d… business’ across the front.
Does that make me ‘paper tiger?’ I don’t know, but I’ve written 3 stories for our local paper on NAIS and I bet I could still ask a dozen random folks on the street - or in the feed store! - what they think about NAIS and get at least 10 dumb looks. How do you get people to act around here (south central KY)?
Comment Shirley Mayrand — January 13, 2007 @ 6:30 pm
Shirley,
Look to the right, on the sidebar, and click your way to Kentucky Against. Join it. There are people in that group that need you. Together a few people CAN move mountains. We’ve seen it. It happened here in Vermont. It is happening in other states - Virginia, Washington.
Faith of a mustard seed can do mighty things.
Sharon
Comment Henwhisperer — January 13, 2007 @ 8:22 pm
We received ours before Christmas and put it went right back into the mailbox with “return to sender” written on the outside.
This farm will not communicate with the USDA or permit them on our ground without a search warrant. In the past they sent a lady out to do the survey because we wouldn’t return it. If she comes around this year, she is going to be told she is not welcomed here and be asked to get back in her car and not come back.
Comment granny miller — January 13, 2007 @ 9:14 pm
Interesting take by Henry Lamb.
Comment walterj — January 14, 2007 @ 3:57 pm
I like your “spirit” Granny Miller.Walter, the piece by Henry Lamb is a good one,it raises alot of points and puts this issue out there for folks to ponder,I have read several good articles by Henry and I think he is an allie.Its a good read folks.The govi/corp will use any method at its disposal to weasel this info into a federal data bank,thats the nature of a weasel,besides being bloodsucking,destructive vermin,yaaa,sounds like govt to me.Another point is that those members of National Institute for Animal Agriculture like Monsanto,ADM,Cargill and such are of course backing this to cash in on the captive market this creates and of course none of us want to “buy” their chips/tags or anything else. I would mention that many farm folks are inadvertantly supporting their own demise by dealing with some of these companies,usually without even realizing it,but every dollar they get is ammo to use against us,for example how many farmers use”Roundup”? its made by Monsanto,this is not to condemn anyone,its just an example,and anyone who pays attention knows Monsanto is not your “friend”(do a search on monsanto,you may be shocked,maybe not) I am saying this to call our attention to what we are buying and more so to “WHOM” we are buying it from,I know it is hard to keep track of all this stuff but I think we as farmers have got to stop and look at this issue,these people mean to kill us off the land,if we don’t stop them, so why would we want to give them a red cent? Seems to me if you know a monster plans to eat you for supper that you don’t open the door for him or help him buy his table setting or the pot he plans to cook you in.You try to starve him or weaken him before he gets strong enough to get into your house,I doubt that any one of us can effect this outcome by our lonesome,but as a group we can all take a look at what we are buying and who gets the economic boost from that purchase,try to not buy anything that feeds the industrial ag machine(food, tools,equiptment,ANYTHING,talk to the feed store if they sell something these people make and see if they will stop selling it,talk to other farmers,ask where your seed comes from and who makes that weed killer or fertilizer,this fight has been a process,a growing,an awareness of what we need to do,and how to do it,so we are learning as we go,but this seems to me to be one of many things we can all do to get their attention,after all its all about money and if they start losing some they may pay attention,its just my thought but I do not see where it is in our interest to use products or sevices that directly or indirectly hurt us,I think if the feed dealer is selling me out by not supporting me against the enemy then I do not need to support his business,same for the salebarn,or traveling seed or fertilizer salesman,if he or his company are unsupportive or uninterested in my liberty to farm and to live free for that matter, then I dont care how good a deal he offers me or how bad I may need his wares I will tell him to hit the road,if we start to spread the misery around a bit,we may be able to get some folks who are fence sitters to realize whats at stake and help us fight this thing,I practice this myself,and yes you may anger some folks and some may say you’re silly or hardnosed,or even threaten to not do business with you in the future,I say theres the door,hope it whacks you on the way out.Now I am certainly not advocating that we get ignorant about it,I am simply saying that we can add this to what we are doing already with other things till we reach critical mass and this this blows apart,I am sure many are already doing this,I would encourage others to consider it,it can help stall this mess,and every little bit of resistance put against the machine serves to slow it down and stall it.Thanks!
Comment LEE — January 14, 2007 @ 6:28 pm
CONNECTION BETWEEN NASS SURVEY AND NAIS
We also have received a survey. Through research I discovered that it is NOT a census survey (this will occur in 2008), and under enforcement of the Authority of the Secretary of Agriculture to conduct a census of agriculture (Title 7>Chapter 55> section 2204g) it states that refusal to answer a question in a CENSUS survey, a person shall not be fined more than $100. THIS IS NOT A CENSUS SURVEY!!!! IT IS AN AGRICULTURAL IDENTIFICATION/STATISTICAL SURVEY BY THE NASS.
Furthermore, in research into the NAIS website, under Premises Registration it states that previously the NAIS received it’s information on total number premises count from the NASS!
DO NOT FILL OUT THIS SURVEY IF YOU DON”T WANT YOUR PREMISES REGISTERED!!!!
Comment Mikela — January 15, 2007 @ 6:33 pm
I wonder if you could return the “survey” with your OWN questions instead of answering their’s…
I have had phone calls and emails from all over the country from people terribly concerned about this thing they got in the mail. We do now know that apparently the American Morgan Horse Assoc. has given their membership list to the USDA as I had one party call who uses a particular address only for their AMHA membership…and the survey came to that address. This party is furious and is not renewing their AMHA membership. More people need to do this - withhold their money, memberships and registrations from these pro-NAIS associations for a couple of years. Without members, they are nothing.
Comment Anita Messenger — January 16, 2007 @ 2:10 am
I know I keep saying it but Anita is right,the groups and organizations that take advantage of your right to choose in order to get you to join them then turn around and sell you out (and your right to choose) are “JUDAS”,backstabbers,traitors both to their members and to the principles of liberty that this nation was founded upon,this is unforgivable and should cost them,its time to call a spade a spade,if folks continue to do business with these groups they betray themselves and embolden these animals to go farther down this path,if we need groups to perform certain functions such as breed registries,then lets start our own,no reason we need to do business with people willing to sell out their members in order to get themselves a position and to earn money and prestige with the govi/corp,their first duty was to their members and to their members common defence,not to a bunch of globalist who look at our liberty and say they have a better idea,than being free!As I have said many times(and will again) we owe them nothing and must do all we can to starve them out,to hurt them economicly,to resist as much as possible even if only to be able to look your self in the mirror in the morning and know you did what you could.Thanks!
Comment LEE — January 16, 2007 @ 10:00 am
the nass surveys have just hit new mexico.my mother and daughter both recieved theirs today.i just cant figure out why my daughter would get one,she owns no livestock or land,but they found her adress some where. go figure.
Comment nick lecompte — January 16, 2007 @ 9:00 pm
I have a question about the survey, Walter. I will welcome input from anyone else, too. Suppose one refuses to respond to it. How do you suggest dealing with any subsequent phone calls from the USDA, asking why you haven’t filled it out? What do you advise saying to them? How do you politely let them know that you want to be left alone?
Thanks, everyone.
[I would tell them that I do not deal with the government over the phone, only in writing. Explain that for all you know they could be some criminal scam artist doing identity theft. Then politely say “Bye” and hang up. -WJ]
Comment Goatman — January 24, 2007 @ 6:52 pm
The Wisconsin Livestock Identification Consortium (WLIC) is seeking input to “move this state beyond the premises registration phase.”. It is imperitive that everyone resond to this and request that the animal ID and premises registration programs be stopped, not re-formulated. you can email comments to: rfourdraine@wiid.org Also check out the website www.wiid.org
With all of the opposition to these programs, the WLIC is looking for input on diluting the programs to only include some species, or “high rick livestock”, maditory vs voluntary participation, and “requiring animal ID to participate in exisitng industry programs”. The solution is abolishment of the programs altogether!
Comment Dan Brockman — April 11, 2007 @ 8:20 am